Skyline Drifter

Fair enough, never heard of it. I looked on the official sites of both the WDF and the BDO and couldn't find a single piece of info on the competition either. I was beginning to think it was some sort of time warp thing that only happened on P&B!

You're right. Apologies, it's tucked away in the small print. The main headlines thoguh still talk about Taylor winning his quarter final and the story therein says he'll meet Whitlock in the semi final but doesn't even mention the other half of the draw. Pretty shoddy from the Beeb.

What this thread doesn't have is any indication of what the last two posters are talking about? What were the scores? Even the BBC website doesn't have them!

First time he's certain not to before the draw is made if that's what you meant? He wasn't able to meet any of them before the semis at Flushing Meadow either, though that was luck of the draw because he was in David Ferrer's quarter.

Murray beats Roddick 6-4, 1-6, 6-1 in his first match in the Masters Cup. With Simon already surprising Federer in three sets earlier he's in pole position in the group though if Federer is fit then him having to win his other two matches maybe isn't ideal for Andy.

Not only did I already know that but I already posted it in this thread!

Indeed. The SS Red curse works phenomenally well. Murray loses 6-7 3-6 to Nalbandian. He'll actually lose some ground on Djokovic for the week then as he's only matched last year's points for q-f whilst Djokovic went a round further than he did last year.

He's a break down in the second too. For the second time. And apparently has a knee problem according to BBC text.

Seemed by and large to run of the mill and without any startling play. Again according to the text service, I didn't see it live either. In a way that's very encouraging that these days he's reached the stage of puting away top 16 players comfortably enough with unispiring performances.

It was January 2008. This year. Is there a reason why you keep inserting a stray "r" in his name?

Murray defeats Verdasco 6-3 7-6 to make the q-f's so matches last year's points here too. Next up Nalbandian who beat Del Potro. Djokovic went out to Tsonga, although achieved more points than he did last year in doing so. If Murray is to close the gap still further he needs to win another round.

No. He has met him twice and lost both. But the last one was over a year ago and the other one two years ago at Wimbledon when Murray was little more than a boy. I don't think past meetings have that much relevance in such circumstances. He went much longer without beating Nadal and Djokovic either, both of whom are better players than Baghdatis, but has beaten them recently. Anyway, it's fairly irrelevant. Murray is presently far too good for either and proved it last night by gubbing Querry in straight sets. Verdasco next.

And Querry gave Nadal problems at Flushing Meadow. I have to say I don't especially see that as a "break". In present form Querry is a tougher proposition than Baghdatis.

Murray however has a history of a knee problem which continues to bother him from time to time and needing attention during the US Open let alone the ankle and wrist injuries that have cost him playing time in the recent past. Such injuries might cost him career longevity and are certainly more likley to occur in the Slams with more rounds and five set matches.

I agree with all that (is Madrid going to clay too or have I misunderstood what you mean there?). All I'm saying is it's a bit early to be saying it would be a "surprise" if he doesn't make world No.1. Nadal has a massive lead over him in points and isn't showing any signs of getting any worse overall. Indeed, his own hard court game is improving too and for all he lost to Murray at Flushing Meadow, that was the furthest he'd gotten there and he ought to be able to improve his Australian Open performances too. He is and will remain completely dominant on clay and I'm yet to be utterly convinced about Murray the grass court player. His serve is improving, as is his court coverage, but he's not got a really "big" serve to dominate on grass and he's sure as hell no serve-volleyer. However, he ought to be seeded top four by Wimbledon next year presumably so the draw will open up for him to match the achievements of Henman in making a semi final at least (though Henman did that four times). As for the age thing I'm merely highlighting Nadal is unlikely to do as Federer has and start to wane a little as Murray goes by him. The likelihood is that they will, more or less, wane at the same time.

Mmmm, bit premature with that one I think but certainly displays over the last three or four months have revealed that his potential is absolutely genuine. I think Number 2 is a given in terms of actual quality (if not rankings). He's possibly there now. Federer is heading down the way albeit still capable of raising his game to a level Murray has not done (as exhibited nicely in the US Open final). Murray will probably eventually surprass him. I think he's probably better than Djokovic now and, if he avoids any daft banana skins and injury I think as said above he'll probably pass him either after Melbourne or shortly thereafter. He's not anywhere near Nadal yet though. He is getting closer but one win in the US doesn't make it a given he'll ever outrank him and there's only a year between them in age so he's not likely to outlast him. The likes of Del Potro may become a real danger from lower down the rankings too.

He's certainly in much better form currently. Murray trails Djokovic by 1,155 ranking points at this precise moment but he has a chance of bridging that gap or going mighty close in Australia at the start of the year. Djokovic isn't defending much between now and the Aussie Open. He got 5 points in Paris last year and nothing at all at the Masters Cup but he did win the Australian and carries 1,000 points for it that he will drop on February 2nd. Murray lost in the 1st round in Australia last year so is only defending 5 points there so if they were to get to the same stage as one another this time Murray would in effect take 995 points out of Djokovic and if Murray got a round further (say final instead of semi final) he'd take a further 250 points which would be enough in itself to put Murray in front. However, Murray is defending greater points between now and Australia, 250 for winning St Petersburg last year and 125 for making the Q-F in Paris. He needs to match those two results too or the gap will grow. In fact it will grow even if he DOES match them provided Djokovic at least gets beyond the first round in Paris because he'll improve his own points total. Murray will also play Masters Cup this year which he didn't last year but as said above Djokovic got nothing in that anyway so their relative performances in that will also be relevant. I know not if Djokovic is playing anywhere else that he didn't last year which might mean extra points (like St Petersburg for instance).

I've played in the Dumfries Winter and Summer Leagues for nearly 20 years though I 'retired' last week for the time being (team has folded as we didn't have enough players for next season and for a couple of reasons I'm not looking for a new team). I play to an ok standard. Not outstanding by any means. Good enough to hold down a place in a mid table top division team in Dumfries comfortably enough but nothing special. I have a runners up trophy from almost anything you care to name team wise (Winter League C Division, B Division and A Division and Summer League) and a finalists trophy at some point or another from Singles, Pairs, Triples and Fours over that period but I've WON nowt! I've had over a hundred 180 scores over the years though probably only a dozen or so in actual competition rather than practice. Been playing pretty well latterly, lost only one singles match in the whole of the summer league. Relative standards are probably dependent on geography to an extent though. I'd imagine you probably need to be better to play pub league in Glasgow than you do in Dumfries. There are some right dreadful players playing every week in Dumfries but so what? As long as they enjoy it.

Well obviously. Sorry, I maybe wasn't too clear there. The point isn't over when the ball physically bounces back over the net, it's over when it takes a second bounce unplayed by the opponent. In theory he can probably jump the net (without touching it) and even just brush the ball on its way back down to earth and he's deemed to have played a legal shot as he's contacted the ball and it has bounced on the side of the net he has to make it do.

If he hits a shot that bounces on the other side of the net and spins back over to his own side without the opponent touching it he'd win the point. Same as if it took a second bounce on the other side of the net without being hit back.

And yet since them, and Michael Stich at the same time, they've done very little either. The highest ranked German male currently is Nicolas Keifer who is 20th in the world and going backwards career-wise though he was half decent for a while, as was Tommy Haas (currently 39th). Rainer Schuettler at 36 got about half of his points in one glory run at Wimbledon, otherwise he'd be around about 100 in the world and they have a couple of other names at the lower end of the top 100. The highest ranking German female is Sabine Lisicki (no, I've never heard of her either!) who, at 63 in the world, is only 8 places above the highest ranked British female, Anne Keothavong. There is only one other German lady in the top 100. To be honest, over the last decade or so, have Germany really done any more than Britain on the world tennis scene?

That would be me. And it was accurate at the time. Indeed it might be argued it's still accurate. Though that doesn't make me a Murray hater if that's where you're heading with this. I was merely defending Henman from the usual summary dismissal as a "loser" at the time. Murray has now achieved something Henman never did, a Grand Slam Final. But Henman maintained a top four ranking for longer than Murray has yet and made half a dozen Grand Slam semi finals, something Murray is way short of. If Murray should win it will be one of the greatest sporting achievements by a Briton in the last century. Go Murray!

He's defending virtually no points from Melbourne last year either so should be able to increase his rankings points significantly which, even if not moving him any closer to the top three, should certainly cement his position at 4 for a while.

I knew I'd posted that somewhere.