banterman86
-
Posts
1,659 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Store
Posts posted by banterman86
-
-
Lineker is on the television. That's visual evidence as seen by millions of people. So not the same.
And YOU have dragged this out. Twice now I've offered to agree to diagree. But doing your best dog with a bone act, you just can't let go.
Because you're calling an assertion of fact an opinion. It's mad.
How about this - "scotland will be in an currency union" was an assertion in the white paper. Was that an opinion?
0 -
Stating Gary Lineker is on the BBC is in no way comparable to what you're crying about.
They are both assertions of fact. Not opinions, they aren't even close to being opinions. You;ve dragged this out rather than simply say 2good, the SNP won in 07 and 11 for a reason, they know what they're doing"
0 -
This would be simple stuff if that was the discussion we were actually having. But its not is it?
.
Yes, it is. the Yes newspaper Blackley talks about had a huge print run and was delivered across scotland. What went into that was a top level decision.
It's really not an issue. In fact, I've tried to put it to bed several times now, but as usual, you keep raking the non issues up then claim they're not an issue?
You've tried to put it to bed by calling a statement of fact an opinion, for some bizzare reason.
If i say Gary Linekar is a presenter on the BBC, is that a statement of fact or an opinion?
Again, I have no idea why people have felt the need to play down his comments, or paint him as bitter. My reaction would have been "Good. these poeple know what they're doing"
0 -
Well if you believe he has stated a fact then you will be under no illusion as to whether he's lying or not.
Quite why you're asking me when you have already formed an opinion is beyond me.
I say he's a bitter ex employee with an axe to grind whom the Herald (who you quoted) described as having a "tantrum".
You say he's stating facts.
Shall we agree to disagree?
Sorry - I'm saying he's making a statement of fact, an assertion, it isn't an opinion, he is saying something to be true. You seem to think it isn't, I'm asking if you think he's a liar.
And again, i don't see why this is such an issue. The SNP should be calling the shots at Yes, there is no credible way the Greens or SSP are on the same level. This is a good thing for the Yes campaign.
0 -
Why don't you find out for yourself re Mr Blackley instead of repeatedly asking us. I've told you that I view him as a bitter ex employee. Take from that what you will.
I don;t need to ask Blackley, he has made a statement. And I have repeatedly said that he wasn't stating a "view" or an "opinion" but a fact. And I have repeatedly asked you if he's lying.
David Moyes can be a biiter ex man u boss, taht would eb irrelavnt if he pointed out Ryan Giggs and Phil Neville were on his staff.
No. You are again altering the parameters of the debate. You claim its about top level stuff, but both you and HB began the discussion by talking about leaflets and poster design. Now you claim all along you were discussing strategy and policy.
Endorsing SG plans for the transition to Independence is not evidence that the SNP "call all the shots".
Leaflets and posters that explcitly endorse the SNPs policies. This is simple stuff.
Child care, which yes championed, has nothing to do with the transistion to independence.
0 -
Your clouding the issue by attempting to.narrow it to policies. Are you saying that no one who is not afilliated to the SNP has any say whatsoever in how the YES campaign is co-ordinated?
No. i can;t speak for H_B but this entire conversation has been about top level stuff, not the RIC doing a mass canvas.
What "policies" have YES produced? YES are not a political party.
They have endorsed everything in the white paper - from currency to pensions to child care to the monarchy.
0 -
The 2nd story in particular, from what I can (as most of it is greyed out) appears to be a disgraceful piece of journalism.
And it's been explained to you about Stan Blackley being a bitter ex employee, whom the Herald, a newspaper you just quoted twice, described as having a "tantrum".
Or do you only believe parts of the Herald?
the 2nd piece is from the Yes supporting Sunday Herald.
That Stan Blackley article, which also appeared in the Yes-supporting Sunday herlad - saw him make statements of fact. Was he lying?
0 -
Sorry to keep banging on about this but do you agree with the folliwing;
If yes why? If not why not? If you dont want to answer because you dont want to comment on something a fellow NO voter has said thats fine.
The evidence we have seen so far would suggest that H-B is correty - I can;t think of a single polciy "win" Harvie or Fox have got which the SNP didn;t already agree with - can you?
0 -
Have they? Evidence please of the Yes campaign ostracising him on two specific, seperate occasions.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/sheridan-frozen-out-of-yes-campaign.24489722
No im asking you if you agree with HB that the SNP are running the entire YES campaign and anyone who is not affiliated to the SNP has no input. Do you agree with him or not?
I can only go on what people with first hand experince are saying - Stan Blackley says the SNP effectively run the show, which is as it should it be given their clear talents
0 -
I'm pretty sure Colin Fox carries his paperwork in a YES case, I can assure you that when he speaks he's speaking for his own party, Sheridan's the same,
No he's not, the Yes campaign have ostracised Sheridan twice. they want nothing to do with him.
0 -
See this is the difficulty in engaging with you and Im not sure uf you do it on purpose or not. You constsntly alter the parameters of the debate without cause to do so or reference to the previous discussion. It can often feel like tslking to two entirely different people.
You were asked why something was "important" and you responded that it was important to you because others deny it. You were asked if that was the only reason it was important to which you respomd that it is now not important. Pick a lane.
I am on this forum to pass time during work - pretty much nothing i say or talk about is important. I find it interesting for sure, and the conversation has succesully passed an hour or two.
I suggest, with all due repsect, you stop taking langauge so literally.
0 -
Who gives a shit whether they're delivering a booklet, that doesn't mean they all agree with the contents nevermind them being under the control of YES or the SNP.
Again, why so angry? I'm sure a campaign newspaper written by SNP peeps will be very good, given their proven abilty to develop arguments which are hugely persuasive to the Scottish electorate.
The Greens and the SSP? No so much.
0 -
You're only talking about what's happening in the MSM, on the ground YES aren't even in total control of their own campaign nevermind the SSP etc.
If this is the local grassroots campaigns, plenty of them will be delivering that newspaper that Blackley talked about....
0 -
How is strange to downplay it?
Because the SNP are very good at winning elections. You should be happy they are in control of the campaign because they know how to win campaigns.
Harvie and Fox wanted a seperate scottish currency and a scottish republic. the SNP overruled both so as not to spook middle scotland voter who they need in sepetmber, and who they have owned since 2007.
0 -
Its only inportant to you because others are denying it? Really?
I wouldn't say improtant no. I find it very strange that yes voters want to downplay the role of the Scotland's top election winning party in the Yes Campaign in favour of the irrelavnce that are the SSP and the Greens, who have never won a constituency in Scotland despite having a national presence since 1999.
It's the equiavalent of saying "No, Pep Guardiola isn't picking the team, Davie Moyes is"
0 -
Well you were responding to a statement I made to H_B's clearly ludicrous position. I havent read Blackleys comments nor do I care. Do you agree with H_B's position that the SNP control YES?
H_B's postion is informed by Blackley's comments. go read them.
0 -
Really lets have another look.
No. Thats exactly what he said.
1.) I was talking about Blackley
2.) "Some SNP guy designed one leaflet" is not what blackley was saying
0 -
Why is it so important to you that people "admit" it? Does it matter that the SNP are the major partner in the YES campaign amy more than the Tories are the major partner in the NO campaign?
Because people seem to feel a need to deny it -
0 -
To go from "some unknown unnamed person employed by the SNP designed a poster and a leaflet"
that's not what he said though.
Again, what's the problem? the SNP are terrific at fighting elections - see 2011 - this is a good thing for Yes that they are dominating it.
0 -
Why does it matter?
You'd need to ask fellow yes voters here who seem perturbed by it.
The SNP are the major independence party, they have a proven track record of winning elections, it;d be madness to not have them running the Yes show in favour of the Greens or the SSP. It makes complete sense to marginalise parties whose strategies have nevertaken them close to more than a protest vote in Scotland. But for some reason admitting this seems to bother people
0 -
Ah, Stan Blackley, the former Yes employee who the Herald described as having a "tantrum".
That one?
the one who made clear assertions that SNP are producing Yes campiagn materials.
Is he lying?
0 -
In much the same way as the BTUKOKNOTHANKS brochure that dropped through my door yesterday was paid for by HM Government, you mean?
Eh? Either "the SNP is producing campaign materials for Yes" is true or not. It is not an opinion. It can clearly be proved or disproved. What is it?
0 -
^^^ dugs with a bone
"The SNP are producing campaign materials for Yes" is not an opinion, it is an assertion of fact. is he lying?
0 -
That's your opinion of his opinion of the facts.
You could simply gracefully accept others see things differently.
You don't have an opinion of something you assert to be true, It's either true or it isn't.
Is he lying?
0
Latest Polls and Latest Odds
in The Politics Forum
Posted
No. It was an assertion of fact.