[Livingston - all the threads merged]

Livingston in terms of finances have been thrown from pillar to post over the years that they have been in buisness. If it is true that they are in high debt, then there will be a high risk of them possibly going out of buisness. This would be the time for the fans of Livingston rallying around their club and actually going to the games at Almondvale. The last time I was at Almondvale was the day we were relegated and it was a pity sight, there was only one stand with Livingston fans and it was not full whereas we had the three other stands and they were just about full with Dundee fans being locked out of the ground aswell. We at Dundee get around 3,500-4,500 at Dens per home which makes us one of the best supported clubs in the division. When we were in the duldrums we had the fans to thank for saving our team with the Dee4Life program and without them would have gone down the chute. So if the time comes that Livingston are in dire need of held, then the fans should think about helping out their club by going to games and perhaps fundraising for the club otherwise if the owners of the club don't get to grips with the financial situation at Livingstion then there might not be a Livingston say in the next couple of years.

Bit of an exaggeration. You had the stand behind the goal and half of the stand running along the pitch. To be fair, you did fill them with more to spare.

[Livingston - all the threads merged]

Back to topic.

The SFL are very worried about livi's state, They are worried that another club in difficulties shortly after Gretna going out of business is going to give bad press about the scottish product. Sadly, Livi's financial problems won't go away anytime soon.

Do you have a source?

[Livingston - all the threads merged]

What a load of shite.Can we add to that list. Dundee Utd, Aberdeen, St,Mirren, Motherwell, Kilmarnock,ICT,Falkirk, St.Johnstone, Dundee, Dunfermline, Partick Thistle, QoS, Morton, Raith Rovers and Ayr Utd . All bigger clubs, all real clubs.

Meadowbank Thistle/Livingston in the SPL??? look what happened the last time.

Will they ever learn??

Yeah, you've taken it a bit out of context.

[Livingston - all the threads merged]

There is absolutely no doubt that David Hay has been a major influence in the Italians taking over the club. It remains to be seen whether or not his assessment of what LFC were (or were perceived to be) has any resemblence to reality in 2008. I think perception and reality might well be a lot further apart than is comfortable for a few involved individuals.

I understand your hopes of growth for LFC, however I feel it's more in hope than belief. It wasn't so long ago that there was much preening down Almondvale way over claims of 4,000 season ticket holders. What was conveniently omitted from the blurb was that over half were paying next to nothing for the tickets, and the poor old Mr McGuinnes was being creamed for several million over and above additional debt being accrued by the football business. I doubt that LFC will ever grow organically to a point where it will ever meaningfully impact upon Hibs or Hearts or the OF. At th eend of the day, be you East West or Mid Lothian, then Hearts Hibs and the OF will always be the attraction that matters, and LFC will only draw people away when admission is for next to nothing, and/or the club are spending cash they don't have.

Long-term existance would satisfy me. Of course Hibs/Hearts/OF will always be bigger than Livingston. But I still feel that we have decent growth potential, especially if we manage to get back into the SPL.

I don't remember there being any big subsidies in season ticket prices when we were doing well. Scottish football crowds in general were bigger back then. I think Dominic Keane just over-spent on players (and that stupid office block).

[Livingston - all the threads merged]

It's no funnier than the number of Livvy fans who believe every word they are told by their owners (past and present) and see anyone who isn't completely convinced as trouble makers. I remember well enough how everyone else was "jealous" of Livvy when they questioned (from a very early stage) how the numbers stacked up when Dominic Keane was at the helm. I remember too that there was one punter who accused PF of being nothing more than a "flim flam merchant" virtually in the first week of his tenure. Again, shot to pieces for daring to question in any way the integrity of anyone running their beloved club. Now here we are again... does anyone see just the tiniest wee potential for a pattern developing here? And no, this time I am not on about the inability to run the club without a Celtic connection somewhere in the food chain.

I've long considered Livingston a particularly grubby outfit (and no, that's not a reflection on the supporters......it's simply that it's a club has always been run in a less than savoury manner....both in a financial sense, and a "spirit of the game" sense). Time will tell if things are different this time around. However, I think there's a 50-50 chance that the owners haven't done their homework wrt existing debt, and revenue streams into the club (on a trend basis).

I think you make some valid points. The ownership and running of the club has been a bit dodgy in the past. I feel that we've never had the stability of other clubs in our league and by and large we don't have the same level of history/foundation. I often question why anyone would invest in a club like Livingston. The vast majority of football clubs are are not profitable businesses. Therefore, for someone to take over a football club and invest a lot of their own money, it would take some sort of personal motive. I just don't see, with Livingston being a new club with a relatively small fanbase, there being many people who would care enough to invest money year after year. I don't exclude the idea that someone with a lot of money would want to just blow it on a football club, but it seems unrealistic that anyone would want to for more than a few years unless they really cared.

I think if Livingston can survive for a few more decades then we will prosper and find the stability that we've lacked before. We have a young fanbase at the moment and the town itself is expanding rapidly with more and more first-time buyers and families coming to live here. If we can attract/keep these young supporters then we will have a stronger fanbase and a better prospect of finding investors who support Livingston and care about the club enough to ensure it's long-term stability.

I'm not suggesting here Angelo Massone does not care about Livingston. But as you've rightly said, time will tell.

[Livingston - all the threads merged]

I'm a bit worried by all of this. Hope that Massone doesn't turn out to be another Pearse Flynn- ie a bullsh*tter. In my opinion (and I'm no lawyer!), the debts inherited by the club should be the responsibility of the chairman. Whether Pearse Flynn has lied about the unpaid accounts or not, the club should pay up first and then seek re-imbursement, should it be due. I do have faith in Angelo, but it's unfair to label people "fake fans" if they become worried or annoyed by the constant stalling of payments they are due. I hope the situation is resolved quickly.