fozzie
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Posts posted by fozzie
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GOOD MORNING TO YOU ALL
I have just read through this entire thread and frankly I am MOST DISGUSTED. It has always been clear to me how the supporters of the "Irish" clubs felt towards Rangers. But a quite shocking REVELATION of the pure bile, vitriol, and animosity, leveled at us from who I assume are otherwise staunch and loyal protestants. You disgust me, sicken me to my stomach. Where is your pride? Where is the love for The Rangers which was once found all across the fair British Isles?
May your 'gods' forgive you for what you have done.
Surely another Seamus alias? If so, best one yet
Keep it coming!0 -
Do Airdrie United still have the history of Clydebank?
They have their membership and honours: http://www.scottishfootballleague.com/club/airdrie-united/
I believe the current Clydebank have the rights to the name and crest only.
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Yes, that's pretty much how I see it, so long as the Double Contract verdict gets announced and appropriate sanctions are put in place ie stripping the relevant honours.
Bit disappointing though that they'll probably now manage to put together a strong enough squad to walk the 3rd division. They don't need money for transfer fees, just for wages. Even if they average 5-6000, they'll still make a lot more money than the others. The fact that they're Rangers should also attract some decent, but brain-dead lower league players. If they get to the starting line over the next couple of weeks, they'll probably do well in their league.
That's assuming a hell of a lot. i.e. that firstly, there's no transfer embargo, and secondly that there's a workable business plan in place to make it till the end of the season without going tits-up again. Both are very doubtful.
The squad's already a skeleton and, if the club's losing money hand over fist (which it will in the 3rd) any player that can be sold for profit will be. Then, add to that injuries, suspensions and the fact that they're only be to sign teenagers and are shouldering a loss of hundreds of thousands week in, week out.
It's not looking good for them without a sizable amount of investment or a huge amount of good will from a creditor. No sign of either on the horizon.
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Why is pointing this out having a go at the fans? The fans have done an incredible job, if it wasn't for the efforts of fans of all clubs newco would be starting the season in the SPL, I have no doubt about that. What has annoyed me is the likes of the Raith and Alloa Chairmen giving it big licks about sporting integrity and then going completely against that and giving the newco special treatment just because it's the club formerly known as Rangers.
For me the end game here was not getting Rangers in the 3rd division, it is having a game in this country which is built on fairness and equality, and here we are the very start of this new era and already they are getting preferential treatment. I'm geniunely surprised at how many people don't seem to be bothered by this.
And where did your team start?
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Don't see why... the SPL have voted them out, the SFL have accepted them in to SFL3. NEWCO has accepted that....
Have you read their website?
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This thread is maybe now in the wrong place. Can it now be moved to '3rd division general chater'
Unforunately, until 'Club 12' is confirmed we can't do that
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Arghhh nooo. They can't axe any staff that tupe over they are legally obliged to pay salaries benefits and pensions. Mp had no sale value as such.closing stands will not save business rates maintenance costs and most other fixed costs!! Police will not just waive fees cos of a funny handshake especially when budgets are being cut and nor will other suppliers ffs. Qp dont fund hampden it's subsidized by the sfa!!! The staff there are paid by the sfa. Don't want to be shouty but your being quite dense here. There is no technical way of carrying on at a loss if your bank wont give you credit!!!they are skint and can't pay a fraction of their costs in sfl three...ffs now my wine is warm
Och well, I'm no expert...
Calm down eh
It's late, and anyway, as I said, if you go back to my original post; I do think they're f**ked too. I was just chucking a few ideas about.0 -
Ffs their fixed costs will be many many times their revenue!!! With Cl crowds Cl TV money spl crowds spl TV money and sponsorship built on spl and Cl they were losing more than a million a month and went bust!!! Now they will have few thousand bigots at best paying twelve quid a pop they have no chance. Losing some players wont counteract hundred odd non playing staff business rates gas leccy water pitch management maintenance etc. Its called fixed costs for a reason! Anyone thinking newco could survive in sfl is totally utterly deluded
Don't get me wrong. I'm not really disagreeing with you. It's quite clear that there's no way for them to break even. I'm just saying that it is 'technically' possible to keep them going. If Murray Park can be sold, it can be sold. The backroom staff and the high earners can and will be axed. They can mothball 3 stands and still get 10 000 a week in (Yeah, I know, we'll see how many actually turn up...) But let's face it, if Queen's park can run Hampden at a profit and climb out of Division 3 from time to time, there's hope for Sevco, police bills aside (I've heard they have sympathetic ears.)
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What large turnover? From the thousands queuing up to watch Berwick or Elgin?
What saleable assets? Ibrox etc. may be "worth" millions in theory but the reality is that Green was the only buyer willing to pay anything for them.
Fair points. Their turnover will be more than the rest of the division put together, so they should be able to put together a side that can win it. They'll of-load any high earners at knockdown prices during the transfer window too. The asset will be the surviving club, not the material assets. If there is reconstruction, they could be back in the top flight and selling out every week within 2 years. Not that it'll be turning in a profit, but there will be enough bluenosed investors about to put a deal together. Plus, the 'club' will also have a certain amount of sentimental value. That deal will look a whole lot less attractive when their in admin again with a huge points penalty and a pile of football debt hanging over them.
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I just dont get how the clubs could vote for Sevco to join the SFL at all given that they have no accounts and there were no simple details (chairmen, ground etc.) for them.
If Spartans had applied to the 3rd with as little details theyd have been told to f**k right off (and rightly so)
A combination of factors:
1) The board forcing the agenda
2) The clubs only being able to force amendments
3) The clock running down fast
4) Everyone being p***ed of with the whole thing dragging on
5) A sense of self-preservation
6) Remaining open to the doomsday scenario
7) A sense of 'they've suffered enough' (in some quarters)
Add all that up and everyone just thinks "F**k this! Let's move on."
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That's how I read it, but it's being reported as a done deal.
I'd expect that the sevco business plan and finances still need to be scrutinised. This ain't over yet.
Unfortunately, a lot of the checks that are in place seem to be 'discretionary' and the committees who need to ratify it are bent as f**k and have already decided. It's a foregone conclusion I'm afraid.
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I might be stupid with this one but wasn't the vote today an agreement in principle? Isn't it now open to other clubs to apply for entry, or is there simply not a vacancy?
It simply has to be ratified by the SFL and SFA committees - a foregone conclusion (I take it you read the leaked e-mails). There's no rule obliging them to invite applicants.
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Thing is they struggled to even get a corporate account...they wont be able to run at a loss for any length of time. Hughie and the invisible investors gambled on transfer fees and st sales to provide working capital and also that they could waltz back to spl...and he was massively wrong on all counts...I will be surprised if newco kicks a ball in anger.
Fingers crossed for the SPL meeting next week...
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They wont make it out of league cos they wont last the season that's why regan et al have been so desperate.they wont be able to build debt cos noone will give em credit certainly not the tens of millions required just to operate. A tesco couldn't stay open on the income of a corner shop
I'm not so sure. It'll be cat and mouse. Sevco will be looking to get out, that's for sure, but if they let the thing fold again, they leave at a loss. Keep it running at a loss, but just enough to win the 3rd Division (which'll cost hee-haw in terms of their, still large, turnover) and they still have a saleable asset which they can recoup a few millions on.
On the other hand, anyone wanting to buy will know that the longer they wait, the more desperate Green & co. will be to sell and the cheaper it'll get, but on the other hand their upping the chances of the whole thing going tits-up again.
A combination of a fan with deep pockets and league reconstruction could help them immensely, but without these, they'll wind up in admin again or hit the top flight crippled by debt again.
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What institution would risk lending money to this outfit?
Unless the 'consortium' comes up with some cash, unless the whole shebang is sold to someone else,
unless Green wins Euromillions, (now that would be a bugger) then Sevco is finished.
I'm normally happy to be proved wrong but in this case I won't be. Happy, that is.
Too right. They're going to have cash-flow issue and run at a sizable loss for sure. It's clear from the fact that Green paid nearly 3 million for contracts during the liquidation that the consortium's business plan rested on them being in the SPL. Their whole gamble has been blown out of the water. The liquidation deal also made it clear that the assets are worthless white elephants. Now they're holding a loss-maker which has no chance of providing any return in the foreseeable future. They'll be looking to get out quick before they waste any more money. Either they sell to someone who has patience and money, or they let it fold again to cut their losses and let said people with patience and money pick up the pieces. Such a person will need a few million up front at least and should be prepared to never see it again.
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So, now that hurdle is out of the way, can Sevco realistically survive in Division 3?
Can someone please post what their current squad is like, as of today as well as a likely wage bill they will have, not just for the playing staff, but their coaches and office workers as well. A nice wee comparison with one of the other Division 3 clubs would be interesting as well, if someone has those kind of figures available.
They trained with 5 seniors, 5 kids and 3 out of contract players. There are a handful who have refused to commit pending clarification of the status of their contracts and league status (I think we can safely say they're not coming back!) As it stands, they have a transfer ban in place, presumably that'll be lifted when their membership is ratified (Please someone correct me if that's not true.)
The big question is their running costs. They have a huge back-room staff and the maintenance and running of Ibrox will not be cheap either. They also are restricted by 3rd division limits for ticket prices and as yet have no season ticket money up front. As a new company, they have little or no credit facilities available, worthless assets to borrow against, limited sponsorship appeal and their only source of funding from the consortium (whoever they are!) is apparently in the form of loans.
They'll get out of the lower league sure enough, but not without going into a lot more debt first. Unless Green has genuine long-terms investor on board or finds some, they'll be looking to slash costs and flog the club and assets as a going concern to Blue Knight / Smith types as soon as possible. There's not a snowball's chance in hell of Sevco being profitable in the next 3 years and Green & co. won't wait for that. They're gambles already failed and the bills are coming in already. It's new buyers or tits-up again.
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Strange. I seem to remember Airdrie Utd having to apply (along with other candidates) to the SFL3 after the liquidation of Airdrieonians in 2002.
I cant remember a vote to keep them in the 1st division?
In all seriousness you may be right with regards to actual rules, so point taken. But morally as you say, the right choice certainly wasnt taken.
Airdrie Utd. applied to replace Airdieonians and failed. They later got in by re-branding Clydebank.
There are lots of double standards at work here though. In every case when a vacancy has arisen until now it has gone without saying that applications are invited and that new clubs start at the bottom. Why didn't that happen this time? Well, we all know the answer. Bottom line is, there weren't and still aren't any rules in place.
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They'd better get a sodding move on. Kick-off is fast approaching.
Btw, moving on, who else thinks the Orc's are going to be even more unbearable (no pun intended) now.
Don't hold your breath. This'll take months. Possibly years. They can call themselves "The Rangers" in the meantime until someone says they can't. As for the trademarks thing, you'd need to ask a lawyer I'm afraid. The point is though, they can get going in the meantime, they don't have to get everything changed in order to start. They might be required to change things further down the line though, but when is anyone's guess.
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They werent.
If the rules were adhered to Sevco would be applying to SFL3 along with Spartans etc. instead of being placed directly in Div 3.
Sadly that's not actually true. The tragedy of all this came about firstly because there weren't any clear rules in place and Regan manipulated that fact to his own ends. There was no rule to say that applications had to be invited in the event of a vacancy, and no rule saying that any new club had to start in the 3rd. The rules about accounts were discretionary and ultimately the board can over rule anybody or change any rule they like.
Morally your right of course, but the whole root of this is the fact that the rules, like everything else in Scottish football were short-sighted, out-dated and ultimately ripe for abuse by cynics.
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That'll take years - Farepak were only finally liquidated last week, despite entering liquidation in 2006.
When they wen't into liquidation they said it would be a matter of weeks, possibly a couple of months. Having said that, that was before the fraud investigations were announced, so who knows. You could well be right about it taking years.
The big question in the meantime is; what happens if the liquidators decide to nullify Sevco's purchase of the assets?
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Not received an answer so will ask again.
When are 'Rangers' officially liquidated? What will their team be called? Do they have a club crest? A sponsor? A strip?
Seriously, if they haven't started on this will they even be ready for SFL 3?
Whether or not trophies and titles are carried over is simply the call of the governing bodies in question (I think...)
As for the crest and trading name, that's a question for the liquidator and the tax man. It could be that if they're judged to be a carbon copy of the club that went bust, they can stop them using them or make them assume the old companies debts.
As for the issue of what name the club 'plays' under rather than 'trades' under. Again, names have to be approved by the football authorities, but whether or not the non-football authorities would stand for them using the same name is an open question.
It'll all come out in due course.
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Applications for associate membership - or for transfer of full membership - are the Board's domain. However, it's clear in Regan's leaked E-mail and the compromise document this isn't a problem... anyway, if it is, what happens? Rangers nowhere?
Not going to happen of course, but I think it's important that it gets the blessing of all SFA clubs, simply on principle as no others were allowed to bid for the vacancy. Otherwise Sevco will always be known as the club that are only there cos the rules were bent.
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Can someone please explain how it is that the SFL can bestow associate SFA memberships?
Don't SFA members need to be able to vote on this?
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INVERNESS Caledonian Thistle chairman Kenny Cameron says the decision to place the 'Newco' Rangers into the third division next season could "spell the end of football as we know it."
Now as hysterical hyperbola go, that one has to take the biscuit!
Due to Rangers being in Div 3, we'll have to give up football altogether.
Presumably shockwaves are travelling round the world as it's no longer financially viable to buy a football and kick it around a park.
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It's late, and anyway, as I said, if you go back to my original post; I do think they're f**ked too. I was just chucking a few ideas about.
Junior attendances 2019/20
in Junior Football
Posted · Edited by fozzie
Sorry, but you might want to double check the stats for Scone Thistle. An average of 322 doesn't sound remotely plausible.