Jambomo
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Posts posted by Jambomo
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15 minutes ago, ayrmad said:
We were assured that loads of negative shit would only happen if we voted YES in 2014, we voted NO and loads of that negative shit happened/is happening.
We've had no tangible proof that Brexit will be a disaster for our economy, it may well be but it could also be the best course of action for the UK, time will tell.
I mean promises in policy, not just people outlining what they felt were the consequences.
eta - You are right about Indy ref though. We were promised 'The Vow' which was implemented to some extent but equally they have withdrawn promised contracts for shipbuilding etc. That only emphasises my point though - that morally those voting Brexit don't have any more or less right to expect it to be delivered on a basis when it was clear the mandate was for a non-binding ref, when policies that have actually been a part of an elected mandate have been broken in the past. They don't have a right to expect MORE than is promised.
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4 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said:
Jamborno legal non binding but morally and politically 100% binding. The UK operates according to constitutional convention and precedent, this would be entirely unconventional and unprecedented and undermine parliament itself. If the result can be ignored teres no point in holding referenda ever at all.
Welsh bairn no it can't, may as said article 50 to be triggered end of march that gives two years which can be extended by about 6 months. This may delay it slightly but we still leave in this parliament either way.
Politically it is clearly not binding, as was shown by the document a few pages ago. They reserved the right in the paper to not be compelled to act upon the referendum result, the question now is why are they not invoking that right. The fact that it is unconventional and unprecedented, isn't relevant - you don't do something because its the way you've always done something, you do what you believe is the right thing to do in the situation you are faced with. Does it undermine parliament? I am not sure why that would be in this case.
Morally is a different matter. I don't agree they are morally compelled to act on the referendum by taking us out of the EU but only that they are obliged to act upon the result in some-way, even if it is clearly showing that they have used the results to produce some laws to try and mitigate the worst of the public's concerns. I recognize though that many people voted on the basis that the result would be acted on, so this is a bit trickier, however many people voted on the basis of believing many things which will not come to fruition, I am not sure why these people should have any less right to be disappointed than anyone else.
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2 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said:
What people are proposing here is the same as if on September 19th 2014 the snp ad said we lost the referendum but are going to become independent anyway. Which, as well as being the complete opposite of democracy, would have lead to the fall of the snp government, possibly dissolution of the Scottish parliament, and probable violence on the streets.
What people are also proposing with another referendum is like yes wining in 2014, spending two years negotiating the terms of independence then having another referendum on that deal. Nonsensical, the UK government have a mandate and instruction from the public to leave the eu, nothing more, nothing less. To do anything else is flagrantly undemocratic.
No it isn't. The distinction here is that the EU ref is non-binding. The UK government, despite what they say, are not obliged to put the results of the ref into motion. They can simply say that they will take the nations feelings on board when planning policy for the UK. So for example, people were worried about the impact of foreigners on local services - we will use this to plan local services better. There is nothing that says they have to put Brexit in motion.
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1 minute ago, ICTChris said:
Just realised that Caley are at Parkhead on Saturday. Will we get treated to the now annual ritual of booing of the minutes silence?
Probably.
Sometimes I wish that what should be private displays of belief, respect and remembrance, were left as that and that we stopped having the whole organized displays of it at sports events or indeed at any other event. I think the initial drive behind it was well-intentioned but it has turned itself into a bit of a nightmare for personal choice and as Miguel was saying, a game of 'I can care more than you'.
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11 minutes ago, bob the tank said:
Money saving expert Martin Lewis handing out the telts on daily politics
What is he saying?
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Pure deflection.
Have you any opinions on the EU's protectionism?
Why should Wallonia be able to veto CETA?
Why shouldn't they?
If they are part of a group which requires 100% agreement on something then if they disagree, it is right that the EU respects it.0 -
Is it?
Apparently so, it's put the Australians off anyway:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/australia-rules-out-talks-until-britain-has-left-eu-k7t6z3n600 -
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Right, which one of you is Racist B?
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c***s whispering. I can't stand the kind of low muffled noise it ends up making - like fingernails going down a blackboard to me. Speak at a proper volume or if it's private then f**k off somewhere else and talk privately.
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4 hours ago, jamamafegan said:
Just reading about how a long lost German U Boat has been discovered off the coast of Stranraer. Pretty amazing.
However in the article I read this:
Should we be angry at this? I feel angry. DAY TOOK AR POWER. Seriously though, what does Scotland get out of sending our renewable energy to England and Wales?agreed, don't be angry. Get them hooked now and when we become independent then England will be helping to support us by paying us for it.
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not defending this in any way but if you don't know already that politicians lie (all of them) then you must have been living on another fuckin planet
It's not that nobody knows this, it's that we don't want them to keep getting away with it in the way they do now.0 -
5 hours ago, zidane's child said:
Going forward, something has to be done about putting fabricated lies or statements on any campaign marketing. The way Farage laughed it off on Good Morning Britain the next day was a disgrace.
They should but they won't, because too many politicians want to use lies and exaggeration but wouldn't know where to draw the line.
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9 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:
Turns out he's real and looks exactly as you'd imagine
http://www2.guildford.gov.uk/councilmeetings/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=134
Penfold's uncool brotherHe's real and so is his petition:
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Is this Brexit Armageddon going to be as bad as the one that happened to Scottish football and society with the social unrest that followed Rangers went bust?
I think that depends on whether you like marmite or not.0 -
1 hour ago, Baxter Parp said:
That's right, a huge bloc of 27 nations. How is it that the UK will be able to get better deals on its own?
We won't. Not only because we don't have people who are skilled enough and experienced enough to make such negotiations a success but also because we are in a position of weakness, other countries know that we are in a poor position and need to agree deals sooner rather than later - we cannot afford lengthy negotiations. They will stall us and push us until we pretty much have to take what we can get, rather than get what we want.
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Ah Tusk is now to be believed, changed days.
I don't believe what he says because he is the one saying it, and I am not sure that he is in a position to talk about the kind of Brexit we'll have until article 50 is triggered and we all start to negotiate.
The idea that Boris has that we'll negotiate a better trade deal with the EU once we are out of it IS fantasy though, which must be clear to anyone with any sense.
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4 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:
Based on what?
This isn't having a go, I doubt anyone on here really knows the cost of breaking up the union and how Scotland would really do as an independent nation.
Again, hearts says independence just not at any cost. It is almost impossible to know what an independent Scotland looks like.I think the big difference now is that it is equally impossible to know what a post-brexit Britain looks like and how it will really function with the exception of knowing that it is likely to be worse than it is today.
I think it also makes a difference that we can see the attitudes of those leading us, there are few people who can be attracted to the Hard-brexit ideas of Theresa May or what is likely to come from that whilst even if you are not an SNP fan, its likely that many will still probably agree more with their ideas around this area.
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4 minutes ago, Michael W said:
I'm fully aware of that, but thanks anyway.
My point is no-one voted on whether or not the UK should leave the single market (a point that those in government would do well to remember). The two are heavilly related, but not mutually exclusive to each other. Scotland's "will" insofar as the vote was concerned, was to stay in the EU. I suppose you can infer from that that Scotland also willed to stay in the single market, but I'm just a little surprised to see the shift to what seems to be a more relaxed attitude to leaving the EU itself (despite the way Scotland voted).
I disagree with this a bit. What people were voting for in terms of Brexit was never really defined, it was a vague EU which may or may not have included the Single Market for some people. Given that one of the main points of argument is control of immigration which can only really be gained by leaving the single market then it would be reasonable for some to assume that it did also include the single market.
All it really says though, is that that nobody knew what the f**k they were voting for
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So you accept that some business people are happy with the lower value of the pound and you agree that homeland tourism businesses will benefit.
How did you manage to read that from what he has written? That's not what I read his post to mean at all.
Not all business people are alike but I doubt that many will enjoy the short-term benefits from the pound falling, most of them will be much more concerned about the long term effect that not being in the EU will bring. These things don't work in isolation.
As for tourism business doing better? A low pound doesn't guarantee that at all, especially depending on what happens with free movement - having to get a visa may put people off.
eta: The actual value of positivity in people's everyday life is something that's debated. Some people believe that things happen and you can influence events if you have a positive outlook. It's considered by others to be very overrated as an influencing factor though.
It may or may not be true but it is almost certain that a persons attitude to large scale national events has almost no impact on them. The press/Brexiters etc might tell people to be positive about it but there's nobody around to be influenced by it and even if there was, the Tories aren't concerned with what the public actually wants - only with what it can conceivably get away with saying they want and feel. Talking about people's attitudes to Brexit is a waste of time either way.
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Brexit (at least the type the government seems to want) is being undermine by reality more than anything else.
The government need a scapegoat for when this becomes painfully obvious to those who voted for Brexit. Point the finger at remainers, the EU member states, whoever - anyone but themselves for creating this mess in the first place.0 -
1 hour ago, Bishop Briggs said:
You are confusing access to EU markets with Membership of the Single Market. All WTO members have access to the Single Market under its rules. The issue whether Britain can negotiate a free trade deal, i.e. no tariffs, with EU.
The recent devaluation of the Pound against the Euro means that, even with tariffs under WTO rules, British goods would be cheaper than before referendum. The markets have factored in the tariffs in already.
Isn't part of the problem that we also have to renegotiate with the WTO as our current membership is partially due to being within the EU? We cannot fall back on WTO access. https://www.monckton.com/brexit-mean-uk-wto/
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I may have been a bit pedantic but you literally did ask to be proved wrong.
I did [emoji4]
I wasn't talking about them coming to power though, but more the stirring up of anti-Semitic feelings against "the other" in society such as the beer hall speeches and blaming the problems of society on the Jews which was absolutely endemic by 1930.
They had acquired the Volkisher Beobachter in 1921 so media propaganda was already well underway as well. The Tories may not own their own paper but the likes of the Daily Mail aren't far away in their support of their policies and in spreading hatred of others who are foreign, poor, even disabled (did they argue against ACAS and its methods?)
Maybe I am being a bit extreme and daft but I am seriously starting to worry about this government.
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What's 3 years between friends?
Indeed [emoji4]0
Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.
in The Politics Forum
Posted
The briefing paper posted a few pages back.