Mij
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Posts posted by Mij
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Speaking from experience, the people of Glenrothes seem utterly uninterested in the fortunes of Raith Rovers, and they have tried engaging them recently.
I totally agree that when it comes to ambition, we should absolutely be aspiring to the likes of Hamilton, Ross County, and even Inverness, who get fairly meagre crowds.
I suppose the flip side of this, is how you balance ambition, with prudence. Just look at the teams that are in our league, or tellingly below us this season.
Hearts, Rangers and Livingston have all either been liquidated, been in administration or are likely to do so again. Morton have lost a fortune over the last few years, Dunfermline have been in admin, albeit they had, by their standards at least, a good team to watch as they plunged 10 million in debt.
Queen of the South lost a fortune during their "boom" time, and if I'm a betting man, Hamilton would be struggling without a sell-on clause or two in their transfer dealings.
I'm not on the board, and I'm guessing no-one else is on here either, but I can only imagine that it's an utterly thankless, and stressful task.
Perhaps I'm being naive, but I sincerely doubt that anyone on the board is making a fortune out of running Raith Rovers, and bearing in mind what we've went through over the last 20 years, I'm quite glad that I've still got a club to support.
Do I think everything's great? Of course not, I want us to be winning every week like we did in the mid -90's, but go and look at the old Fife Free Press' of that time, we were losing a fortune.
We got by by selling players, something that isn't possible now because of the Bosman scenario.
I think we're on an even keel now in terms of our finances, and by all intents and purposes, I think we may be debt free, a fact that should probably be celebrated.
The problem is that fans will never start cheering a balance sheet, so how does the club attract more of us?
BETTER PLAYERS!
CHEAPER ENTRANCE FEE!
WIN GAMES!
EXCITING FOOTBALL!
It's a chicken and egg scenario though isn't it? The players are guff, so supporters stop going, so the players get worse, and the spiral continues.
In terms of the crowds, when my Grandad started taking me we were only getting a few hundred in the mid-80's, so our current average really depends on when you compare it too. I think it's safe to say that our current support is uninspired though.
I can only hope that we improve incrementally. I'd like us to be
miles clear of relegation this season, which in a far tougher league, would be progress.
I don't actually see the "Big Three" thing as exciting, I see it as something which has stunted our ability to challenge. I hope we make a profit this year, as our ability to get promoted is essentialy zero. The best we can do is hang about, which is hardly exciting.
Anyway, like I say, none of us has any answers, I just don't think things are quite as bleak as they're occasionally painted.
The joke's on you actually.
'The whole of the north of Scotland' - you mean everything north of Tore, which doesnt leave much of the north of Scotland. Dingwall is by far the biggest town at 5500. The whole of the Black Isle has 4000 folk, and Strathpeffer 1,500. Muir of Ord and Conon Bridge combined is 5600 (which are actually nearer Inverness). There are two main roads north from Dingwall; the towns on one, as far as Bonar bridge 30 miles away (and including Dornoch) have a combined population of around 12,000: those on the other road as far as Lochinver 60 miles away have a combined population of around 4,000. Adding all that to Dingwall's 5,500 and you get a catchment of less than 30,000 folk spread out over a wide area. That is much less than the population of Glenrothes less than 10 miles from Stark's Park; Kirkcaldy has 48,000, and I wont go into the populations of Kirkcaldy's satelite towns.
"Ross County have several millionaires on their board". I dont get what that has to do with Burntisland but whatever, what household names are on their team sheet? Rangers have several multimionaires on their board and they're skint.
Maybe the real reason RC have a better support and outside finance is because theyre a success story on the pitch?
PS, heres some a) and b) reasoning of my own:
a) success breeds success and promotes interest, whereas shoestring budgets lead to famine, or rather people tend not to visit skinflints;
b) learn some geography and demographics of your own first before ridiculing others'.
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Many board members didn't want to go up in 92/3, but we did.
And?
A word to the wise for anyone who IS actually foolish enough to think we should be doing a Dundee, Pars, Falkirk etc and bringing in players on long contracts at exorbitant rates.
This summer we came within an ace of agreeing a move to Central Park (talks were held with CFC) due to the stubbornness of Mr Sim. The result of all stubbornness and talks is that as we all know we have a longer lease but at a cost.
If there's anyone out there of the mind who would like to see the changes implemented to bring in the class of players above mentioned then contact Mr Sim and agree a release price for the stadium (approximately £450k will suffice).
Alternately pop along to your local friendly chairman and offer him either the price of the wages required or just offer to pay the rent either way you'll be £6k+ out of pocket a month.
Option 2, Get real.
Away man,Sim wouldn't give the stadium away for £450k.
We ain't being paying anything near the £6k rent for years
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This wee 'theory' keeps cropping up again and again despite the fact that there's no logic, let alone evidence, to support it.
From the horses mouth
That'll explain what happened in the second half of the season. The club/some individuals got all the players together and gave them a chat along the lines of "this winning football games will never do. Go out there and look like c***s while losing a few so you get lower wages next season for being pish as well."
Did they?
This season was always going to be a balancing act, promotion practically impossible but a strong and good enough squad capable of holding their own required to keep the support happy while the club rake in cash from other sides' supports.
It hasn't balanced out fairly in my book, our depth is barely noticeable (injuries or not) and the quality is no real improvement on what we ended last season with.
I certainly notice our support dwindling, the quality on show at a Starks under Murray has been torture and while bearable for die hard fans like most on here due to 'love' for the club, it certainly isn't going to entice occasional or new fans to attend on a more regular basis. We have a pretty decent 'sleeping' fanbase which will soon be lost forever if we continue playing garbage football and stagnate at the bottom of this division or worse. People want to be entertained, how many games in last year at Starks could the football on show from us be classed as entertaining? Not very much is the answer.
Murray oot!
Also, Big Berk might come across as a bit of a nugget but he makes plenty of valid points in my opinion
Good post
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Rumbled!
Makes sense though. Nae point in chucking good money after a title tilt or playoff promotion when there isn't much chance of it happening.
Defeatist as f**k but realistic.
Not agreeing or disagreeing with you Andy just your post could have come straight from the horses mouth
I believe we have ambition, but it's got to tempered with some realism. Can we compete with the 'big 3', on a fraction of their gate receipts, whilst paying all out old bills, I don't think so.
We have ambition?The club/some individuals did not want to go up last season
I think its pretty obvious that we in fact no other teams in the league can compete with the big 3 financially but we have to be competitive with the rest playing some decent stuff to keep what supporters we have and possibly getting some of the deserters back
As an aside,the likes of Inverness,Motherwell etc who have poor gates, play good football and compete with clibs with much bigger budgets than them
We are indebted (in more ways than one) to a few local business men, who are in the 60+ age bracket, and unless they have developed some sort of immortality therapy on Pratt Street, we have start becoming self sufficient in terms of finances.
Although happy to sing the praises of these business men for the job they are doing and have been for a number of years lets not forget they are part responsible for the situation we found/find ourselves in
BTW,4 business men
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That long since I watched the Vid but sure it was stated they or any club could not make long term plans(financially)There was nothing I recall regarding how much debt we were carrying although thats available to shareholders or can be sourced from company house.Also cant recall any mention of how to reduce the debt
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Anyone else think it'd be prudent to get a side on as low a budget as possible that is capable of staying in this league, wait until the big boys have been promoted and then use the pooled cash for a wee tilt at the league when it's more winnable?
Turnbull?
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Turnbull's thoughts on fans voicing their thoughts on Social media/forums has always been clear, he appears to have a very dim view of those sat behind keyboards.
So whilst I can quite believe he would be happy to chat. Suggesting to a fan that his current managers job was on the line is laughable really. Whilst he may be frank, he's not stupid.
Not laughable in the least.Happened to be with Raithies auld man at the time.
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As we highlighted in our Chairman's letter to season ticket holders, the financial climate of the game in Scotland remains extremely challenging for every Club, and DAFC is no exception. Particularly as we will again be operating as a full time Club in the third tier of Scottish Football, which makes planning for the future very difficult
Make it less challenging and less difficult by not operating full time status in the third tier and build slowly
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I can understand how other clubs who didn't f**k up monumentally like mine did would feel upset. I think most can. But you said our club are continuing with a 'GIRUY attitude'. This simply isn't true, You imply the club in it's current form is behaving in some sort of arrogant way, which it isn't. Again, I can see why fans of other clubs would aggrieved by us being able to make good signings whilst they ran their clubs properly, but it isn't being done with a smug, 'roond ye/up ye' attitude, or indeed any sort of attitude.
Thats why I said "it may comes across like that to supporters of other clubs" and it may also come across that way to tax payers or creditors who received the square root of zilch
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I'm not saying he's good (or bad). But he's definitely done good business here, which is what people are saying. You rightly can slag him and us off for the pumping you gave us a East End in which you utterly played and outclassed us all over the pitch, but he's being praised for the signings he's just made.
Where/when did this happen?
Like it or not, the club were given their punishment and have served it. You can argue about the punishment all you want (I wouldn't have objected if we were relegated to the third division personally and given a year's transfer embargo) but it's done. The club either have to get on with business or they should just quit and fold the club right now. The punishment you think we should have got isn't going to happen, so what really do you want to happen? From your post you're desperate to paint the current incumbents as the same as the old ones (ascribing a GIRUY attitude when none exists with absolutely zero evidence to back up your claim), but in my experience thus far that's far from the truth. The club are making signings as they want to get promotion and be as successful as possible, but not in the way it was done before. We have released/let go of some players, thus freeing up wages. It's pretty simple adding and subtracting (although not simple enough for the previous 'custodians'). And as I say, you've fabricated the 'GIRUY attitude'.
Where and when did it happen?It may comes across like that to supporters of other clubs because of what I pointed out and sure if the shoe was on the other foot you`d feel much the same.Not argueing about the punishment given if punishment is the write word but not severe enough IMO not just for Dunfermline but for all/other clubs.Too easy for clubs and companies in general to spend money they dont have,wrack up debts,default on payments,enter admin,ditch their debt and then continue in a similar vain and seem to be not a lot worse off,in fact in a better position than those that scrimp and save to pay their dues. .Not your fault I know.
Dundee twice,Livi,Motherwell,the Orcs? and Dunfermline all seem to be on a better footing than many other clubs who try and service their debt
I think its natural for other supporters to feel aggrieved that clubs foe example like yours can stay full time especially next season with much lower gate revenue,sign players on two year contracts etc after such a short space of time out of admin
Of the course the club want promotion and to be as successful as possible but hopefully not at all cost so heres hoping the current incumbents have got the simple adding and substraction correct and not we must get up next season come what may
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Ayr United = Pars feeder club. First Geggan and now Moffatt. Pleasing!
Yep
Must be pretty galling for supporters of other clubs who run a tight ship trying to pay bills watch a club who robbed the tax payer and many small businesses,offer 0 pence in the £ stay full time,hoover up players and general carry on regardless with a GIRUY attitude
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Our first 11 is looking very decent on paper. Absolutely no depth whatsoever but we're looking good for this campaign. Best shape we've been in since promotion on paper.
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Agree,good looking but lacking in a bit of depth squad.A centre half and a couple of loanees required IMO
Its a not bad sized squad, throw in the defender we need and maybe another midfielder for cover (tho Booth can play mid as well) looking pretty good
Factor in Murray unlikely to play much and Hills time in the stand serving suspensions our squads a bit thin
Pleased with the Cardle signing and happy I took us at 12/1
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Similar to what came up in my conversation with TH.He was hopeful of a signing or two on Sunday.Signings may well have been made and as has been said awaiting on official registration.
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There is no legal requirement for Dunfermline to pay their football creditors first, and they won't do so if they exit administration via a CVA. However, if they do exit admin via a CVA they will still be required by the football authorities to pay back the remaining debts to football creditors - if they don't then they would face further sanctions from the SFA or SFL.
More or less what I was alluding to Craig.Indirectly it makes football clubs/debts preferred creditors
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I don't think Hamilton and Cowdenbeath will be treated as normal creditors. This will be counted as football debt by the SFA and will be required to be paid in full at some point.<br /><br />Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Pie & Bovril mobile app<br /><br />
Which would mean the SFA overruling the conditions of Administration then
All football debts have to be paid in full so both Hamilton and Cowdenbeath will get all their money if we survive. Still long way to go yet.
Do you have a link to all football debt has to be paid in full?Was led to believe this is the case in England but unaware all football debt has to be paid under the no preferred creditor status in Scotland
edited to say
In a situation of insolvency, the "football creditors rule" means that debts to other clubs or players are prioritised and must be paid in full before the club is eligible to compete again in the league. The football creditors rule does not apply in Scotland.
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Apologise RoversMad never saw your post
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Corrrect me if I am wrong but there is no preferred creditor so surmising Hamilton will be added to the list of creditors.
If this is indeed the case and guessing the Aministrator is not in a positon to pay the debt as it would be giving preference to one creditor over others Dunfermline are going to have to rely on a mystery benefactor to pay this debt in order to particpate in the SC.
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Was the Rovers money not going to TPC rather than DAFC?
It was going to the Steering Group
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Have to feel sorry if there is no deal to be had for the supporters,staff and players.
I have some abiding memories of visiting East End Park and not just of our derby games but of the many European games I attended in the 60`s,yes this coming from a Raith Rovers supporter(dragged along by my dad
) and Norrie McCathies serviceAll the Best
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2 proposals have been received by Masterton; one by TPC and one by A N Other. In the Courier apparently. Will give answer on Monday - please accept Gavin, please!!
Suppose any deal acceptance with be determined by how much Mastertons willing to relinquish
Do you see Masterton walking away without a sizeable wedge in his pocket?
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I feel bad for Jim Leishman, because he's clearly genuine. He loves Dunfermline, and he's trying to do what he can to save the club.
However, he's taken the position of a man who's come home to find that the family farm has gone to ruin while he's been off fighting a war, when in actual fact he's been sitting in the barn with his fingers in his ears for the last decade.
That could be aimed at our BOD
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All I can think of is that it's aimed at Celtic fans who see Raith as an allie after Mr Huttons stance last summer, yuk
Yes so much so they sponsored two Raith players this season
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FFS if you don't like the scarf don't buy it, I won't be buying one myself but if the club turn a profit on them then it's been a good venture.
This
I reckon the vast majority of real rovers fans won't go anywhere near this, however you might sell a few to the Celtic fans from Kirkcaldy that have a "soft spot" for their wee team.
This
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The New Raith Rovers Thread
in Scottish Championship General Chatter
Posted
Not what the latest accounts state
The club have been trying to get Sim to hand over the deeds for quite sometime but to no avail.Sim said only a few years ago he had no intention of selling.
No dispute there.Rent has varied over the years due to the club not being able to afford it ,6k,4k,nothing at all to whatever they are paying now.Resulted in the club running up thousands of a shortfall
Due to my work location,poor internet access,connection I have little time to post under Mij never mind under any other guise but bet away
Fantalk,last time I posted on there was near 5 years ago if not longer
As you appear to be so interested in me for some unknown reason just like to make you aware that I,ll be off the radar for the next few weeks