Tibbermoresaint
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Posts posted by Tibbermoresaint
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Just now, pandarilla said:
So a more centrist labour party?
He's left wing, and he's being constantly attacked from all angles of the media. I agree with a lot of his ideas and views - but don't particularly like his style.
I don't think there's a more charismatic socialist in the Labour party though.
And I'm more than fed up with the centrist chancers and their vague promises.If a more centrist Labour party has more chance of governing than a more leftist one then yes. A more-socialist-than-thou party in permanent enfeebled opposition is pointless.
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3 minutes ago, pandarilla said:10 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:You're missing the point. The media isn't the problem. Labour in general, and Corbyn in particular, is.
What kind of labour party would you prefer? One that was run by a blair-like leader?
A Labour party that is an effective opposition and is in a position to take over as a competent government. If it can't be that then what is its purpose?
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13 minutes ago, pandarilla said:
He's not a great leader by any stretch, and I sometimes wish he would show some more oomph (so to speak).
But the media onslaught against him has been incredibly obvious. I'd have more respect for someone who acknowledged it and was fine with it, than someone who denies its existence.You're missing the point. The media isn't the problem. Labour in general, and Corbyn in particular, is.
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14 minutes ago, pandarilla said:
Student socialist ideology?
Are you labelling all socialist policies as immature?
I'm also not a fan of this accusation that a party has been an ineffective opposition. It's massively overstated as essentially it's the media choosing where the emphasis should be.
If the BBC and co decide one point is justified then it becomes justified. If they disagree then in many respects it disappears.
There is literally no easy option for labour on brexit. Their voting base is split down the middle and the they know it.Of course. It's the media's fault. What else could it be?
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1 minute ago, Detournement said:
I'm serious.
SNP policy is piss poor and the GC is right wing shite. Labour aren't perfect but the party being reclaimed by grassroots members has opened up possibilities that didn't previously exist in UK politics.
Just having a party which is led by a genuine anti imperialist is absolutely class.
This "genuine anti imperialist" currently has the worst approval rating for any opposition leader ever.
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1 minute ago, Detournement said:
You do realise that Labour took away their majority and that May has resigned?
And that's it. The sum total of their achievements against the worst government in history.
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So here's car manufacturing jobs being threatened by Brexit. Now obviously, being the party of the workers and socialists, Labour will oppose these job losses by opposing Brexit. Won't they?
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12 minutes ago, Detournement said:
Nah Labour are the only party who can end austerity, address climate change and challenge Neoliberalism.
Labour support Brexit. All your pious bleating doesn't change that.
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1 minute ago, Jacksgranda said:
You obviously can't follow a conversation - read this page from the top.
A simple "no" would have sufficed.
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3 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:
Unless of course these car consumers work in the (soon to be) non-existent European car industry.
Any reason you believe the European car industry will soon cease to exist?
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6 minutes ago, Detournement said:
You are the thickest person on here. I actually feel stupider replying to you.
Yes workers need to be protected from mobile international capital to prevent a race to the bottom. No cars won't get cheaper as the cost of manufacture isn't directly linked to sales price. You don't have a clue what socialism is and viewing the economy as some sort of global zero sum game where one worker's loss is the gain of another has no connection to reality.
What can you say about this gibberish? No, workers don't need to be protected from mobile international capital. Mobile international capital is a fact of life. Fighting against it is like fighting gravity. Good luck with that. Consumers need to be protected against protectionism, especially protectionism imposed by socialists.
The cost of car manufacturer is directly linked to sales price. Manufacturers wouldn't last long if they sold for less than cost.
I'm well aware of what socialism is and isn't. You dreary little Englanders have completely forgotten what the Internationale is.
You're right that the economy isn't a global zero sum game. Unfortunately socialists think it is with their endless inability to do more than see their little corner of it. No wonder changes in the global economy surprise and confuse them.
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1 minute ago, Detournement said:
Tariff free cars from Japan fucks over European worker in the car industry.
Well boo fucking hoo. Are European car industry workers so special that they need to be protected?
This is good news for European car consumers who'll be able to get better cars cheaper.
It's also good news for car industry workers in Japan. Are you not happy for them? As an international socialist you should be.
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4 minutes ago, Detournement said:
Aye it's a trade deal which fucks over ordinary workers and benefits the rich.
Not exactly something to crow about.
Who's crowing? And it isn't the trade deal that's fucked over the ordinary workers, it's their stupidity in voting for Brexit.
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1 minute ago, Detournement said:
Nissan will close because the EU signed a deal allowing Japan to import cars into the single market tariff free.
Indeed. Japan has a trade deal with the EU. Little England won't.
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9 minutes ago, NotThePars said:
Dozens of factors but I’m going to throw deindustrialisation in there.People drink themselves to death because they're no longer at risk of falling into vats of molten steel? Plausible.
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2 minutes ago, strichener said:
Sorry but it wasn't me that suggested this.
You're the one suggesting the liability would fall on the taxpayer.
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3 minutes ago, strichener said:
I have no idea what point your are trying to make in the first two sentences.
Off-loading the liabilities is most definitely cherry-picking. The oil will only be extracted if someone can make a profit from doing so, otherwise it will stay in the ground as it has with coal.
No-one other than you is suggesting offloading the liabilities. They will be picked up by the operators as is the norm.
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2 minutes ago, strichener said:
OK, let's see your timescales on how Scottish Independence, rUK Negotiations and EU Membership will pan out.
Sure. Negotiations with the rUK and the EU will both start the day after the vote for independence. Both will conclude within 18 months or so to enable Scotland to be in the EU on Independence Day.
As a member of the EU Scotland will benefit from the EU-rUK FTA from day one. If that hasn't happened Scotland will be involved in the negotiations to get the best possible benefit from the deal.
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5 minutes ago, strichener said:
I think the rabbit hole is already filled with the heads of people that think Scotland can have a no-deal independence from rUK and not only cherry pick what that they want but at the same time dictate to the larger entity. It is far more likely that any indication that there would be no-deal would see the Unionist in Scotland demanding a second vote on the basis that "no-one voted for a this type of independence" which would put the SNP in an uncomfortable position given their current position of wanting a second referendum for the UK.
Gobbledegook.
3 minutes ago, strichener said:Again, Scotland at the point of negotiating with rUK will not be in the EU.
Again, nonsense.
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3 minutes ago, tirso said:
Well we're not going to win by making stuff up.
No, but let's not forget how successful that was for the britnats in 2014.
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7 minutes ago, tirso said:
No they (polls) don't. and no (the UK govt) don't have to bother.
The fact it's still a majority against before the hard questions come is a real worry.
So what will the arguments against independence be after a hard brexit? I'm not convinced that "we're completely fucked but you must stay and be completely fucked with us" is a winner.
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10 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:
Apparently 0% of footballers went to public school. I am amazed by that!
At least 1 current Saints player went to public school.
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1 hour ago, strichener said:
This wouldn't be a dispute between the UK government and the Scottish Government in the event of no-deal independence. This would be between the offshore operators and the Scottish Government. There is no way that the Scottish Government will seek a stand-off with the industry over decommissioning costs, it would be absolute madness to do so.
There won't be a standoff between the Scottish Government and the offshore operators. The Scottish Government will write the law and the offshore operators will comply with it. Decommissioning costs will be met by the industry as has always been the case.
1 hour ago, strichener said:The rUK government will not be dictated to by Scotland in negotiations and won't be negotiating with a Scotland in the EU. Anyone that thinks that Scotland will have the upper-hand or that Scotland will be in the EU quicker than it leaves the UK is certifiable.
Anyone who believes Scotland won't be in the EU on Independence Day is certifiable.
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On 22/06/2019 at 00:34, GOG said:
Metallica's version of Whiskey In The Jar was described by Q as having all the grace and subtlety of a one-legged man in an arse-kicking contest. I'd say that's about right.
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What is the point of labour ?
in The Politics Forum
Posted
After 120 or so years is it not obvious that the voters aren't interested in a socialist government?