[When will indyref2 happen?]

4 minutes ago, strichener said:

Decommissioning allowances are categorised as capital allowances (see Chapter 13 of Part 2 of the CAA 2001) there is no obligation on the company to disclose these separately but I know that Endevour Energy's decommissioning submission for  included a section on costs that omitted the costs for commercial reasons whereas BP's listed them as £300m for the Miller.  Without knowing exactly how much expenditure was incurred, working out the taxpayer contribution is impossible but unless the companies managed to decommission for zero cost then we can safely say that there was a taxpayer contribution in every instance.

There are also legislation in place that guarantees the oil companies a payment from the government if the tax regime in place at the time of decommissioning is less attractive than the one in brought into force by the Finance Act 2013 and guarantees around another parties liability where if they default full tax relief would still be available.  Both of these measure were introduced to give certainty to the industry around decommissioning and may increase the taxpayer's liabilities.

Obviously companies have received capital allowances as a result of decommissioning assets. That's how capital allowances work. Your claim was that the taxpayer has paid to decommission assets, which is something very different. Can you say which assets the taxpayer has paid to decommission and how much they've paid to do so?

[When will indyref2 happen?]

Just now, strichener said:

Yes, every asset that has been decommissioned so far has been an expense to the taxpayer.  I am not sure how you think otherwise.

Which assets? How much has the taxpayer paid to decommission each one?

[When will indyref2 happen?]

1 minute ago, strichener said:

Your not getting this at all.  All the assets that have been decommissioned so far have had taxpayer finance but we are speaking about less than 0.1% of the North Sea infrastructure that has been taken out of the water. 

The issue is not one for the current time but where the industry is over the next 30 years.  Conoco is the latest major to sell their North Sea assets having sold them to Chyrsaor that famous, established Cayman Island based holding company.

So no assets have had to be decommissioned at the expense of the taxpayer. And no reason to believe any will. Glad you've got it.

[When will indyref2 happen?]

2 minutes ago, strichener said:

The Scottish Government will not be taking licences away from existing operators so the incumbents are who they are.  In terms of any new licences issued - I refer you back to Scottish Coal:

Extraction Licence - Tick
Bond - Tick
Government end up with liabilities - Tick

I would say your last point is laughable.  History shows that governments invariably end up with liabilities that they did not foresee or through poorly written or executed contracts.

Of the assets decommissioned hitherto how many have had their decommissioning paid for by the taxpayer?

[When will indyref2 happen?]

3 minutes ago, strichener said:

You obviously don't have much inkling about the operation of north sea platforms.  Most of the "global players" are selling their older assets to independents who may or may not have the resources for decommissioning.  There are similarities here with what happened with the coal mines although your previous posts on this would should that you didn't have muck knowledge about them either.  I would guess that you get through the night by keeping the light on and convincing yourself that it is still day time.

Clearly drilling licenses are going to be issued to cowboys. Clearly.

Clearly it would be beyond the wit of the Scottish Government to ensure decommissioning bonds are lodged before sanctioning deals. Clearly.

Governments have a lot of levers you pull to ensure they aren't lumbered with liabilities.

[When will indyref2 happen?]

5 minutes ago, strichener said:

Quite rightly too.  In the case of Scottish Coal this is not publicly owned company, rather they were a private enterprise.  It is far too simplistic to state that the asset owners will retain liability as we have seen time and time again instances where corporations enter insolvency proceedings leaving behind massive liabilities.

I very much doubt global oil companies are going to liquidate themselves merely to avoid North Sea decommissioning costs. But if you need hysteria to get you through the night so be it.

[When will indyref2 happen?]

6 minutes ago, strichener said:

In the same way as it did for Scottish Coal?  Remind me who ended up footing the bill?

The taxpayer footed the bill for nationalised industries. That's how nationalisation works.

[When will indyref2 happen?]

3 minutes ago, strichener said:

The entire tax take is what the industry has contributed since the 60s, not what it will contribute going forward.  The North Sea oil industry will not generate £330 bln of revenue over it's remaining life let alone this amount in tax.

It would be very difficult, given the way the industry has fragmented over the last couple of decades, for the Scottish Government in an Independent Scotland to remove the tax allowances for decommissioning.  Such a move would undoubtedlylead to the viability of many assets becoming more than questionable and operators liquidating their assets in the North Sea.  In such instances, the liability for removal will rest with the government entirely.

The liability for decommissioning will rest with the asset owners.

[When will indyref2 happen?]

7 minutes ago, strichener said:

The biggest issue is the radioactive LSA scale that has to be cleaned from the pipes and associated equipment.  The costs are substantial even when compared to the entire tax take from the production.  Currently the estimated costs of decommissioning at between 60 and 80 billion against a total tax take of 330 billion.

So it'll cost oil companies £60-80bn and the Scottish taxpayer will get £330bn. Sounds good to me.

[Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.]

4 hours ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

He knows whichever side he opts for will cost him votes and seats.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/caroline-flint-suggests-26-labour-mps-could-back-a-tory-brexit-deal_uk_5d0f5bcae4b07ae90d9e8658?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALRyF0WN87xr6nucq5oA9NpDkeKmjEINhtGJqfrs8SMtYo_TsbWtX_DNRSYSY_llHnOa4xfMvK3RQCaiD6Va84jlVeAMMKgNj-qxqJUTpSeUdIuopdr2sVovGgo-IItU1F6eaCWIBHuV78IuBq0bg54r28XPr9Fen80Y2TRxcceE

There are far more remainers than xenophobes. Appealing to the majority is likely to bring more success than appealing to the minority.

[When will indyref2 happen?]

2 hours ago, MixuFixit said:

Derp. You're half right and I'm half wrong. Half is by operators, half is by tax relief.

Assuming we have the same tax rules as we do currently. Why would we do that?

[When will indyref2 happen?]

5 minutes ago, strichener said:

The North sea decommissioning would be a Scottish liability on independence if there was no agreement with rUK.  

North Sea decommissioning costs will be borne by the owners of the assets being decommissioned.

[When will indyref2 happen?]

13 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Breaking news:  Post-independence Scots' shite doesn't smell.

We'll need to demolish Ibrox and Celtic Park first. 

[When will indyref2 happen?]

2 minutes ago, strichener said:

Simply replace nuclear with North sea.  Both of which will be similar costs for decommissioning.

Neither of which will be borne by an independent Scotland.

[Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

I'm sure you'd get a similar graph for the UK economy and other countries not in the Eurozone.

And countries not in the EU.

[The European football level St. Mirren FC 2024/25 thread]

6 minutes ago, glenburn bud said:

Keeper won’t be Holmes....

 

[When will indyref2 happen?]

59 minutes ago, Antlion said:

But staying in the UK with, presumably, the hard border with Ireland (that the mythical Anglo-Irish hard border would be based on) is alright? That doesn’t say much for your rejection of a hard border being based on the pursuit of a “fairer, more just society”.

Not just a hard border with Ireland but with 26 other countries and 500,000,000 people.

[When will indyref2 happen?]

5 minutes ago, tirso said:

In the scenario of hard brexit? UK govt , Irish and eu 

Sorry edited to add. Your answer was shite and I'm an indy supporter. As well not bothering if that's our comeback.

 

If there is a border; failing to see a way round it, Indy is fucked

 

 

^^^ completely pished.

[When will indyref2 happen?]

Just now, tirso said:

3 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

Thought so. Who exactly is proposing a hard border?

In the scenario of hard brexit? UK govt , Irish and eu

 Have you never heard of the Common Travel Area? Do you genuinely believe there won't be a rUK-EU trade agreement? Do you genuinely not know that immigration is a national competence and not an EU one?

[When will indyref2 happen?]

Just now, tirso said:

Yeah we can win telling Scots there is a hard border for jobs on this island.

I'm the drunk one.

Thought so. Who exactly is proposing a hard border?

[When will indyref2 happen?]

Just now, tirso said:

Don't bother calling indyref2. Rightly or wrongly England has fucked it for us all.

Economics can't be won on that scenario over midterm.

We're part of eu but only one with an integrated economy with England.

Are you drunk?

[When will indyref2 happen?]

3 minutes ago, tirso said:

7 hours ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

For information, Sweden, which had never been in the EU, applied to join on 1 July 1991 and became a member on 1 January 1995, 3 1/2 years later.
A country which has been in the EU for 46 years and which meets all entry requirements will have a far shorter negotiating period.

And? Were in. Moronic to think otherwise. How is cross border trade with England in this scenario?

The same as it is for any other EU member.

[When will indyref2 happen?]

3 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Then it's simple.  Go to a Brexit-fatigued electorate with no divorce agreement with  rUK and no pre-nup with The EU and see what the outcome is.  Geo Sq will, again, be awash with Union Flags.

I'm actually trying to help you here.

[When will indyref2 happen?]

2 minutes ago, Mastermind said:

 

Or the Scottish people demand we stay part of Britain yet again, even though you just don’t like that.
 

 

Why would people who have voted for independence do that? And how?

[When will indyref2 happen?]

1 minute ago, The_Kincardine said:

 

Funny how these Yessers are morphing in to JRM.  Birds of a feather, eh?

Merely explaining the facts.