Quotation Marks
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Posts posted by Quotation Marks
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To give the Camelon Chairman his due, that is a belter of a statement.
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22 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:
Those of us that regularly visit P&B pick up certain vibes and I can now see a very interesting scenario developing which relates to the East Region clubs and the way that the WOSFL / EOSFL boundary issue is handled.
The EOSFL in my view has always been a very progressive league and has allowed clubs outwith its main catchment area to participate in the league. We have seen clubs from the South of Scotland play in the EOSFL including Annan Athletic, Dalbeattie Star, Threave Rovers and Gretna 2008. We have recently seen a place offered to Clydebank that was not taken up. The administrative boundaries of the league has remained flexible which allowed such moves.
A situation has arisen in the context of the West Lothian clubs where the EOSFL boundary would not be flexible but would be fixed. This would represent a major shift in policy. There would appear to be two options that can be followed:
Fixed Boundary:
This would define the WOSFL/ EOSFL boundary. The expectation is that West Lothian would be within the EOSFL catchment area. Justification would be on the basis of history using the same boundary that defined the West Region and East Region of the Junior grade. Clubs like Armadale Thistle, Bathgate Thistle, Fauldhouse United, Livingston United, Pumpherston Juniors, Stoneyburn Juniors, West Calder United and Whitburn Juniors would all be included in the administrative area of the EOSFL. Harthill Royal might be treated as an exception / anomaly given their geographical position.
At the same time the Tayside / EOSFL boundary would also need to be fixed for Tier 6 and below. The delineation of the boundary using the existing LL / HL Tay definition would allow Scone Thistle and Tayport to join the EOSFL. The rest of the 15 Tayside clubs that are located north of the Tay boundary would be outwith the EOSFL administrative area and would not qualify for inclusion in the East of Scotland under any circumstances.
If the above boundaries are being sorted out it will also become necessary to address the EOSFL / SOSFL boundary and the WOSFL/ SOSFL boundary in order to ensure a consistent approach. This is where the Fixed Boundary position becomes more confusing and possibly could hamper the future development and progression of clubs that fall within the SOSFL administrative area.
Flexible Boundary:
This approach enables clubs to choose what league they prefer to participate in and their acceptance would be dependent on the votes cast by existing members.
This approach would mean that the West Lothian clubs can apply to either the EOSFL or WOSFL (or for that matter the SOSFL).
The approach would provide a “mix and match” formula that avoids hard boundaries. The approach may sound a little odd but has been consistently followed by the EOSFL and SOSFL.
The approach would mean that the Tay boundary can be challenged by the the 15 Tayside clubs north of the Tay who can make a case either as a group or individually for membership of the EOSFL.
The Crossroads:
I believe that we are currently in a fascinating position witnessing the latest episode how Non League / Semi-Professional football is going to evolve over the next couple of months.
1. If Fixed Boundaries are established we are likely to see the West Lothian clubs participating in the EOSFL along with possibly Scone Thistle and Tayport. The 15 Tayside clubs north of the Tay will be excluded. The administrative area of the EOSFL will of course need to be subject to the final approval of member clubs. I suppose that ratification would also be necessary by the WOSFL and SOSFL for their respective administrative areas.
2. If Flexible Boundaries are retained it will enable the West Lothian clubs to apply (successfully?) to the WOSFL. It also opens the doors for the 17 Tayside clubs to apply as a group and individually to join the EOSFL. Such a movement of clubs would of course be dependent on the willingness of the existing membership to accept the influx.
3. The inclusion of the Tayside clubs is a challenging issue that brings both positive and negative aspects. It also introduces the need for regionalisation rather than a “tower“ pyramid.
4. In my book if the West Lothian clubs are allowed to join the WOSFL there is every justification for the Tayside clubs to make a case for inclusion within the the EOSFL in order to avoid being left in the equivalent of the “badlands” which Senior football is reluctant to settle.
NB: I hope that I have interpreted the “smoke signals” correctly!Excellent post and it will be fascinating to see how it plays out. It had slipped my mind that Clydebank had previously been offered an EoS place.
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2 minutes ago, Burnieman said:9 minutes ago, Quotation Marks said:That's my point, if an application is received prior to those discussions taking place, will that application be assessed on the criteria that was in place when it was made?
I doubt that will play any part to be honest.
'your application must fall within a criteria that doesn't presently exist'
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2 minutes ago, Burnieman said:
If both leagues agree that the EoS/WoS boundary remains the same as in the Juniors, I'd be very surprised if the WoS are going to ignore it and allow WL clubs join.
That's the point of the upcoming discussions between the leagues.
That's my point, if an application is received prior to those discussions taking place, will that application be assessed on the criteria that was in place when it was made?
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Another issue that will require to be clarified -
If an application is received by either league prior to any 'official boundary' being put in place, will that application be assessed on the criteria that was in place at time of submission?
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Meeting has been moved to tomorrow.
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5 minutes ago, Burnieman said:
You've not really answered the points I raised. What would Bathgate say to the WoS when asked why they want to join when some of their local rivals already play in the EoS, and WL is considered an east area. What benefits would they bring to the league to persuade them to encroach into EoS areas? How do WL clubs sell themselves to the WoS?
Also, starting at the bottom league if you're already in the bottom league isn't a deterrent, so Craigroyston for WoS? Forth Wanderers or Royal Albert for EoS?So the the decisions by a few West Lothian clubs 3 / 4 years ago should impact on a greater number of West Lothian making decisions regarding their future now?
If West Lothian is an east area in the pyramid I'm sure a map showing the boundary exists.
I'm sure well run clubs that meet criteria would be attractive to any region ( from what you're saying the EoS seem to want them, why wouldn't the WoS?)
Entirely a decision for Craigroyston, Forth & Royal Albert.
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1 minute ago, Burnieman said:
So having West Lothian a mix of different regions would not create "real world" issues, that's disingenuous. Where would you draw the line, maybe an Edinburgh club would fancy a stab at the WoS, maybe a Lanarkshire club would like a try at the EoS in return, see where this is going?
What would your answer be if and when the WoS ask each club what their reasons are for applying to the WoS over the EoS, given that the EoS already has three West Lothian clubs as members, and why should they let them join. What would they say are the benefits to the WoS?
I'd imagine starting again from the bottom is enough to deter clubs from moving region.
Meeting the criteria would be a plus, it's also quite possible that the majority of a West Lothian clubs players could reside Lanarkshire / Glasgow, so financial considerations may come into the clubs thinking.
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35 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:
Not too sure what the local paper situation is in West Lothian. Biggest one I could see is the West Lothian Courier.
Just as an example that maybe doesn't get a mention. Doesn't it make sense for that paper to have a fairly specialist subject covering Livingston, any promoted teams and the EoSFL. Rather than split that focus at the regional level with WoS /EoS?
It's a huge decision for all the Clubs and I'm sure they will consider all aspects.
Who knows the Courier might give this issue some coverage, it would fill a few column inches at a time when there is not much happening non league footie wise.
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15 minutes ago, Burnieman said:
If you're a supporter of one of the clubs (Bathgate presumably), then you'll appreciate that the Lanarkshire/Lothians boundary has been there for over a century and is understood by everyone, some of your tradition rivals (which is a big part of what football is all about) play in the EoS already.
Why would a club seek to change that, what logical reason would there be for a West Lothian club to seek to join a west league and remove itself from accepted tradition and local rivalries? If you're looking for a "best way forward" it's not joining a WoS where potentially you're 3 or 4 divisons away from a Premier spot, playing clubs in Ayrshire or Glasgow that mean absolutely nothing to your supporters.
Secondly regarding the Pyramid and this is the important bit, we know Ayrshire and Glasgow are west, we know the Lothians and Edinburgh are east, why should we create what would amount to a confused mess in West Lothian, a mixing bowl of clubs in different regions - what benefit does any club or league gain from doing that?
I think we know what lies behind some of these clubs wanting to go west, and sadly it has little to do with "best way forward", that much has been made clear.
I understand that the boundary you mentioned held significance within Junior football but does not apply within the pyramid, I believe that the clubs thinking of applying to the pyramid meet the criteria for both EoS & WoS. It's been years since the West Lothian sides played against teams that would have been considered some of our 'traditional rivals', clubs adapt and find ways of making their situation work for them.
Personally I don't believe that teams from West Lothian playing in different leagues would cause any 'real world' issues.
You are right that these considerations (amongst many others) will need to be taken into account by clubs when make their decision, I truly hope that they are and each club makes a decision it is the right one for them (personally I don't know what clubs intend applying to what league but believe they should be allowed to apply to the league that best matches their vision for the club).
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As a supporter of one of the West Lothian clubs that may apply to the pyramid I'm intrigued at the level of debate that's been generated.
As stated multiple times on this thread there is no boundary between the EoS and WoS, as the teams involved are geographically placed in such a way that travel to either region would be pretty much similar why shouldn't they give consideration to WoS?
I fail to see how having a history in the ERSJFA should limit the Clubs choices regarding what is the best way forward for them. Should a West Lothian club (or a few) decide the WoS is where they wish to start the new chapter of their history, I say 'all the best'. I really don't see how this will damage the pyramid.
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First two games couldn't have gone better, off to a flyer!! Well done to the players, coaching staff and committee.
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4 hours ago, FuzzyBear said:
So there was an EGM.
Main sponsor - related to bloke that runs DEM Master - is pulling out.
Willie Hill no longer putting money in - he was until last season.
Need £15K to keep going
Only 2 committee members.
If you dont think that there means the club is in danger get your head out of the sand. I am not happy about this by the way. Decent club with great facilities.
You missed the part about the coaching staff and playing squad being strengthened ahead of the forth coming season. First preseason friendly this Saturday.
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3 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:
Its on their facebook page that their is an EGM. Maybe they are going to run a Reserve team in the East of Scotland League next year as a tribute act to the real deal
Looks like you've wandered on to the wrong forum (again)...
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On 18/05/2019 at 13:33, pie n beans said:
Bathgate have no interest in the East Junior Superleague never mind the EOS, they have a good pitch and good terraced area and they have floodlights, but the committee are more than happy to play in the south division against the likes of Stoneyburn etc, no disrespect to them.
Its generally a good club but they are getting left miles behind by the likes of Blackburn, who are now a bigger club, former Bathgate captain Stoogs now at Blackburn and i wouldn't be surprised if Feeney and Dalrymple were next.
As far as I'm aware both players mentioned are signed Bathgate players, I'm not aware of any offer from Blackburn but who knows, every player (no matter what club they're at) has a price.
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Camelon juniors 2020-2021
in East of Scotland Football League
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