[The Queen of the South thread]

39 minutes ago, Priti priti priti Patel said:

I just had a look back at the Board’s answers to written questions at the last AGM. I think it puts into context why the club is performing so poorly. The page with the questions and answers doesn't seem to be working but you can see an archive here: https://web.archive.org/web/20210422030325/http://qosfc.com/news-5367.

As I go on to say below, the club lacks any clear objective, but it's useful first to say why that's the case. The Board were asked if they looked at any data to set objectives for where Queen of the South should be in the pyramid. The answer was no. They said they were aware that data analysis “is very much in trend at present”. This suggests two things: firstly, they are confusing business-oriented market research with player-based data analysis. Secondly, whatever they’re thinking of, they think it’s just “a trend”.

I advise businesses and own my own small business. In the interests of fairness, I admit each of the directors has had a longer career and achieved more than I have to date. However, most people in business accept that it’s impossible to make informed business decisions without data behind them. If you’re a tradesman trying to go independent, you can sort of just set up and see if you get work. But if you’re Tesco deciding to build a new store, you’d think about (a) cost of investment, (b) return from existing store in the town, (c) competition from other stores in the town, (d) transport links, (e) predicted local population growth, (f) lifetime of the property, etc.

I am not saying Queen of the South should be operating on the same level as Tesco, but I would at least expect our board to be using some sort of data to base their decisions on. Without data, you can’t set objectives, you can’t assess whether you’re under or over performing, you can’t know where to invest, etc. It leads to a rudderless ship.

In the written questions linked above, the directors were asked specifically if there was a business plan and what it looked like – who authored it, what is its duration, when was it written, how many pages was it, who has access to it. The answer was simply “The plan for the club is to make the business financially self-sufficient by increasing non match day income, in particular, by developing the property assets owned by the club and increasing commercial activities.”. So – no business plan at all.

The board were asked three times what the club’s objective was. They gave three different answers. They said (1) “The aim must be to play in the highest league possible” although no information on what league, and what position in the league, they assess that to be; (2) “The plan for the club is to make the business financially self-sufficient”; and (3) “The board’s ambition is very much to mount a promotion challenge every season”. I am confused how any decision gets made at board level if they aren't clear about what they are aiming for.

I am also concerned about the board’s financial stewardship of the club. It’s true we have reported a profit in the last two financial years. However, going back to the Tesco example, it's no good returning a profit if you're doing it by selling off a few stores every year to finish in the black. Eventually, they’d have nothing left. Our situation appears similar. We’ve returned profit two years in a row, but only with the stadium falling apart, our performances steadily worsening, our squad becoming steadily weaker, and our fanbase collapsing. For me, that’s not successful financial stewardship.

The final point I want to make also relates to finances. In the written questions, the board stated “The club sets a budget which aims to break even while assuming no cup progress or player sales.  Inevitably, of course, the playing budget tends to increase during the season to cope with injuries or deficiencies in the squad”. I read this to mean the board sets a budget which it thinks will inevitably get broken. That seems a pointless task, but okay. They go on to say “If there was a cash deficit, then this would be funded by the Directors”. However, with a lack of clarity about objectives, it begs the question: are they funding that to the level which puts us in the highest league possible, or just puts us self-sufficient, or allows us to mount a promotion challenge every season.

I say all the above as someone who has typically defended the board on this forum. I think a lot of people confuse the role of owner with the role of director. It is not the directors responsibility to put their own money into the club, and the fact they do is a great service to the club. Unfortunately, the performances both on and off the pitch mean questions have to be asked. There is clear room for improvement, and I think a good starting point would be to just look at a bit of market data and formulate a plan for what we're meant to be doing!

 

 

[The Queen of the South thread]

On the subject of goalkeepers I see that Alan Martin has gone in the cream puff at East Kilbride. Benched for a game and has walked out! Manager gobsmacked at his behaviour. Deja Vu!

[The Queen of the South thread]

Morning Harry monk ,I was wondering where you'd gone since morons 'r' us closed down ,there you are .
Bit niave  to think players actually join forums 

Naive Besty...!

[The Queen of the South thread]

We are sitting 4th in the toughest league in the country. 2nd most clean sheets in the league. 3rd most goals scored in the league. We have players like Stephen Dobbie and Gary Harkins who are, more often than not, brilliant entertainment.

Have some f*****g positivity.

Well said

[The Queen of the South thread]

This really shows the ambition Queens have .
Joe Thomson had to be our top target this summer .
Okay Dunfermline pay more but surely for this one player we could have matched what Dunfermline are paying him  we all no what he can do .
 
[/Not being able to compete wage wise in no way shows a lack of ambition. Other factors like playing in front of bigger crowds in a better stadium and possibly a better geographical location may have affected hi decision .

[The Queen of the South thread]

Kenny Miller has been linked with Aberdeen, Dundee, his first club Hibernian, Motherwell and St Mirren.

If Miller at 38 is classed as fit and good enough for top level football, why was Derek Lyle who is super fit not kept on?

You can’t seriously compere Miller and Lyle as equals. One is super fit and a gifted player who will be welcomed at most Scottish premier league clubs. The other a journeyman who’s light is fading.
Let’s see who Lyle signs for and how he performs!

[The Queen of the South thread]

According to the papers today Stirling is not in our plans with both Dumbarton and Ayr interested.
If this is true why on earth did Naysmith sign him in the first place ?
Yet another example of his poor management skills - he would rather ditch people than work with them to get the best out of them.
It seems the majority of fans thought he had something to offer but was never given a decent chance.
Will this be another contract that has to be paid up which we can ill afford ?

I’m not one of them! Undoubtedly got skill which we saw in flashes but too inconsistent. Lovely smile for the team photo though. Don’t imagine Queens will have to pay up his contract unless we free him.

[The Queen of the South thread]

Hugely disappointing .
Your wording suggests that is all down to the player himself but if I have got that wrong then surely you would have to agree that it  was down to extremely poor judgement by our Manager in not selecting him when fit and available and playing him up front with Dobbie  -  hugely intelligent, talented partnership.
 

Don’t think so, he’s done. Managers only regret may be giving him a contract for the past season. Great in his day and will be fondly remembered but last season was a season too far!

[The Queen of the South thread]

Just the 7 for me, ya auld duffer.

Experienced son, experienced..

[The Queen of the South thread]

As at 1st May 2018:
1 - Jim Patterson, 251 goals in 462 appearances, 1949 - 1963
2 - Bobby Black, 120 goals in 346 appearances, 1952 - 1961
3 - Derek Lyle, 117 goals in 269 starts (96 sub) appearancs, 2002 - 2004, 2004 - 2006 & 2012 - 2018
4 - Andy Thomson, 114 goal in 196 starts (35 sub) appearances, 1989 - 1994 & 2006 - 2007
5 - Stephen Dobbie, 108 goals in 171 starts (17 sub) appearances, 2007 - 2009, 2016 - Current
6 - Jocky Dempster, 98 goals in 342 starts (13 sub) appearances, 1970 - 1979
7 - Tommy Bryce, 95 goals in 283 starts (14 sub) appearances, 1985 - 1987, 1994 - 1998 & 1999
8 - Stevie Mallan, 94 goals in 233 starts (32 sub) appearances, 1993 - 2000
9 - Tommy McCall, 93 goals in 264 appearances, 1925 - 1934
10 - Ian Reid, 89 goals in 192 starts (5 sub) appearances, 1973 - 1978
11 - Jimmy Robertson, 89 goals in 378 starts (22 sub) appearances, 1979 - 1987 & 1989 - 1993
12 - Jackie Oakes, 81 goals in 457 appearances, 1936 - 1947 & 1951 - 1960
13 - Iain McChesney, 79 goals in 587 starts (28 sub) appearances, 1961 - 1982
14 - Rowan Alexander, 78 goals in 165 starts (18 sub) appearances, 1978 - 1983 & 1995 - 1998
15 - Billy Houliston, 74 goals in 155 apearances, 1945 - 1952
16 - Jackie Law, 71 goals in 226 appearances, 1936 - 1948
17 - John O'Neill, 70 goals in 143 starts (52 sub) appearances, 2001 - 2003 & 2005 - 2008
18 - Lex Law, 68 goals in 316 starts (18 sub) appearances, 1964 - 1975
19 - Jimmy Rutherford, 66 goals in 65 appearances, 1930 - 1934
20 - Willie Dougan, 65 goals in 88 appearances, 1922 - 1925
 
So Derek Lyle, barring some sort of Lazarus like return, finishes up with 117 goals and 3rd in the all time list (a podium position he'll likely hold for only a year). Disappointing that having made 117 before the end of November he failed to add a goal in his last six months. Injury kept him out for a couple of months of course. He made only 3 starts and 9 sub appearances in that time.
Stephen Dobbie is 5th with 108 goals coming into next season. Given he's managed 53 goals in a little under 2 seasons since returning, then he'll surely manage the 12 he'd need to become 2nd top all time scorer in the next year.
We should treasure the next year of him firing them in because, unless he does another season beyond that, I suspect it will be a long time before anyone else gets anywhere near that top 20. Players staying with clubs long enough to do it these days is less and less likely. The next highest scorer behind Dobbie in the current squad as it stands right now will be Lyndon Dykes on 12. It's fairly remarkable that we have three modern day players in the top five who most of us have seen scoring for Queens.

Feeling old..I’ve seen 14 of them!

[The Queen of the South thread]

Marshall is ok but not great. Think that this is his level though he is young and might kick on! Not in the same league as Kevin Holt who will surely be freed by Dundee. Interesting to see where he’ll end up.

[The Queen of the South thread]

there will be some queens players on £200 or less a week

Not in the first team squad!

[The Queen of the South thread]

8 hours ago, Northfield 53 said:

Livi budget is similar to Dunbarton budget and they are part time .

Livi do pay a average of  £200 -£300 a week.

Only Lee Millar is  under contract at Livi next season he along with Alexander will be on decent money the rest as above 

The players realise if they do well at Livi then they will get a move to a bigger club on decent money 

 

 

Whats your source......

 

 

 

[The Queen of the South thread]

Yes,  it's a pity that the likes of Andy Stirling didn't seem to get the opportunity to benefit from this practise. 

He did get the opportunity but didn’t take it! Doesn’t seem to be pulling up trees at Dumbarton either.

[The Queen of the South thread]

To make that statement you would need to know what this seasons budget is. Enlighten us.

[The Queen of the South thread]

3 hours ago, Nithsdale Wanderer said:

Think you will find that  Derek Lyle is the absolute best in the squad at retaining possession and bringing others into play up top.

He is , indeed, the perfect foil for Dobbie as evidenced both this season and last but for some inexplicable reason our Manager doesn't  agree.

 

Like all players there comes a time when age takes its toll and sadly Lyle's time has come. Niggling injuries are now the norm for Derek which is a tell tale sign. A great servant for Queens who over many years  has been one of the first names on the team sheet but sadly those days are over. 

[The Queen of the South thread]

1 hour ago, Northfield 53 said:

Could not agree more .Surely just give Stirling game time and he will show what a good player he is .Loan a player out to get a loan player in the same position seems mad to me .

Is Thomas a better player than Stirling ?

YES

[The Queen of the South thread]

1 hour ago, Northfield 53 said:

We really need to somehow get a forward  in with pace.

Ferguson has done okay but he has no pace and I just can't see him score goals for us .

Not looking like we will sign anyone before the window closes we really need experience but I suppose that cost money just have to go with the young boys who sadly won't get us into the playoffs 

How do you know we won't be signing anyone?

[The Queen of the South thread]

Is McFadden likely to feature as trialist again against annan?

Press reporting McFadden will play against Annan but McLean looking for a club elsewhere. Take it from that Gary still assessing Faddy but didn't fancy McLean. Maybe better options available.

[The Queen of the South thread]

 
Certainly on trial, but no confirmation anywhere. Would take him, experienced centre half were needing. Was pretty solid before at Falkirk but can't mind seeing him since..

Also plays full back positions so would suit Gary's known liking for versatile players. Only reservation is his lack of game time at Hibs.

[The Queen of the South thread]

Almost certainly a case of Naysmith giving a pal some training facilities I'd imagine.  I'm sure the presence of a character like McFadden has it's benefits though.  If he's looking to go through his coaching badges don't you have to complete so many hours of coaching or be affiliated with a club?  We might be assisting with that?
I'd love to believe he could drop back into midfield and do a job like Allan Johnstone did for us, but I suspect he's finished even at this level.  I also suspect that the wages he would demand would equate to that of the 2 or 3 players we need and would be better spent on them.

Scotsman quotes Gary saying McFaddens got a lot left and that he would love to get him in.

[The Queen of the South thread]

I remember Ches playing most of the time as an old style 'left half'.

[The Queen of the South thread]

Great result today. The bench looked a bit stronger but midfield cover still seems young and inexperienced. Will Gary try to strengthen there?

[The Queen of the South thread]

Sounds like Anderson, Hooper are oot. Millers gone so that's three. Gary said three or four oot so one more to go or perhaps more? If there's another three to come in?

[The Queen of the South thread]

Doubt that it can be beaten or that it's true?