Khufu2

Well I think the obvious point is that many of these clubs have really ballsed up any hope of sensible pyramid in the east. For 2019-20 and for seasons afterwards there'll be lots of mediocre clubs above better ones. Maybe for 2019-20 there should be 4 regional divisions in the EOS to help start sorting the wheat from the chaff.

So how would you describe them in their current context? I notice you haven't answered.

LOL! If a club due to be relegated to the third level of the East Juniors isn't "mediocre", how would you define it Burney_man. I admit that it's all a bit relative. "Mediocre"by East Region standards might be "pretty good" by next season's EOS standards.

I was just thinking about the quality of clubs remaining in the East Juniors, in contrast to those who have bolted. Ranking the clubs 1-48 by their current positions (points per game) and discounting the North section which isn't providing any clubs to the EOS then this is the outcome Probable East Junior top division 2018-19 with their 2017-18 positions 2 Linlithgow Rose 3 Penicuik Athletic 4 Dundonald Bluebell 5 Broxburn Athletic 6 Lochee United 7 Bo'ness United 8 Broughty Athletic 11 Sauchie Juniors 12 Carnoustie Panmure 13 Newtongrange Star 14 Jeanfield Swifts 15 Kennoway Star Hearts 16 Forfar West End 18 Fauldhouse United 21 Tayport 22 Thornton Hibs Average position 11 EOS 2018-19 1 Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic 9 Hill of Beath Hawthorn 10 Camelon Juniors 17 Musselburgh Athletic 19 Haddington Athletic 20 Blackburn United 25 Tranent Juniors 29 Dalkeith Thistle 34 Edinburgh United 39 Crossgates Primrose 44 Easthouses Lily Miners Welfare Average position 22.5 And remember, these clubs are actually strengthening(!) the EOS.

Don't be so foolish. How would you describe a club which in normal circumstances would be about to drop into the the third level of the East Juniors? Do you actually know what "mediocre" means? I'm guessing you don't. Here, I'll help you: mediocre ˌmiːdɪˈəʊkə/ adjective of only average quality; not very good. "he is an enthusiastic if mediocre painter" synonyms: ordinary, common, commonplace, indifferent, average, middle-of-the-road, middling, medium, moderate, everyday, workaday, tolerable, passable, adequate, fair; More You really do spout some dreadful piffle.

Except that we are not talking about per capita crowds attending football matches. We are talking about crowds. It is a nonsense argument to claim that having semi-pros travelling the length and breadth of Scotland to play in front of 600 is more justifiable than full time pros travelling the length and breadth of England to play in front of 6,000 (though personally I think the fourth tier in England should also be regionalised). If it ever happens, a real Scottish pyramid would benefit from regionalisation at a higher level than at present. A top division of 12 and a second division of 18 is probably more than enough to be competing nationally. The rest of the odds and sods should go regional. .

We must be reading different posts. I've been down this road easy answer is the funds and grants camelon can get can help the club integrate with its youth teams and become a bigger comm nity club rather than just having one team

I think you mean "fewer".

That's just nonsense. They're mediocre because they are close to the bottom of the second level of junior football in the East. They would probably have been relegated had they not jumped ship. It's a statement of fact rather than opinion.

What a numpty you are. Scotland is in a league of its own when it comes to the disproportion influence on attendance figures of just two clubs. Didn't you know that? Jeez. Take away the top two and the average attendance is halved England - average 38k Take away top 4 and it's 32k- a 15% drop. Exceptionally large number of people LOL! Because they nearly all got the Ibrox and Celtic Park!!!! Scotland's figures are skewed unlike any other country. 20 teams attract more than 1000. Two teams in SPFL1 attract over 1000. None in SPFL2 do.

Absolutely it was a big match. I thought Dundee U-Livingston was a far bigger match. Clearly not.

Average crowds 2017-18 Championship 2800 SPFL1 850 SPFL2 500 Prem: 16,300. Take away Rangers + Celtic home crowds 8,700 Scotland has 20 teams averaging over 1000. It's madness that 42 are involved in national competition.

It's not great for a team in the second tier of Scottish football, is it? It seems to me that the senior game is as sick if not sicker, than the junior game.

And why do you think the EoS will be better? Fixture lists.....

Absolutely. I suspect the likes of Eyemouth, Tweedmouth, Blackburn and Inverkeithing whotsits won't want to be involved with the inferior juniors though.

Now do the calculation without Rangers and Celtic.

What's the prize money like in the South Challenge Cup then? Who are its sponsors?

It goes back to the age old question. Will you get better crowds for games against local rivals or against perhaps marginally better teams from further away. An earlier post mentions 12 Dumbarton fans at Peterhead. How many more would you get if they were playing at Coatbridge or Cumbernauld?

Out of interest, what was the prize money for the Football Nation cupwinners? This is the premier cup competition for the senior non-league sides in the southern half of the country. Attendance at the final: 130.

I have to say I was shocked at the poor crowd at Tannadice last night - 5,600 for a Premiership play-off semi-final. Especially when you consider Lochee United attracted getting on for 2000 for a Junior cup semi-final a couple of weeks earlier.

I'm sure Talbot and other west clubs will join the pyramid. If it makes sense. With better clubs sitting higher in the pyramid than mediocre ones. The east junior defectors have now totally ballsed up much chance of a sensible pyramid structure in the East. Luckily it's a clean slate in the West. So whereas Bo'ness and Linlithgow may end up a division or two below Eyemouth and Tweedmouth and a club that has never played a game of adult football, the west section of the pyramid could well reflect relative abilities. If they've any sense Bo'ness and Linlithgow should consider joining forces with more westerly clubs. the competition will be better too.

Salford City have never played in the Northern League. I suppose you mean the Northern Premier League NPL North, tier 8 in England will have a smaller footprint next season, with an extra division added at tier 8 and a further one will be along soon - so tier 8 will soon be shifting from 6 to 8 divisions. It's a recognition of the nonsense of travelling long distances for part timers to be playing in front of a few hundred. Tier 7 is moving from 3 to 4 divisions too.

And next season there will be an extra division at both tiers 7 and 8 in England to reduce the footprint of the divisions. Of course there will always be outliers in leagues - Truro, KIngs Lynn, Workington come to mind in England, but SPFL2 , a 10-club division has Peterhead, Elgin, Annan, Berwick - nearly half the division is outliers! Why on earth would any club aspire to be in such a division? It makes absolutely no sense at all.

Darlington-Salford 2 hours exactly. And Darlington are/were very much an outlier. Annan-Peterhead 4hrs 37, Berwick-Elgin 4hrs 30 each way.

We are talking about people who are in full time jobs, spending 7 hours, probably in a minibus to fulfill an SPFL2 fixture in the middle of a Scottish winter.. Not a bunch of students flying to fixtures. The non-playing budgets of the US colleges will totally overshadow those of SPFL2, most of whom exist on a shoe-string. If you think the two are comparable you are totally mistaken.