Pyramidic
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Posts posted by Pyramidic
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10 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:
We don't need compromise. Compromise has got us exactly nowhere in the last 2 years.
A West of Scotland League provides the route to the Pyramid for any club that wants it (Junior or non-Junior) and can be achieved for next season.
The WRJFA remains for those clubs who want to remain Junior, as is their right.
It really is that simple.
The LL (or EoS) are not going to look good if, after the last few weeks, they hit reverse.
There is no reverse being suggested just a booster to "turbo-charge" a new WoSFL senior league.I would hope that LL/EoSFL firmly administer the new league at the outset. Perhaps supported by any progressive administrators from the WRJFA that want to come on board for an exciting new journey.
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5 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:
Points F and G alone should see this fired into the sun. The whole premise of the WoSFL is that every club in the west of Scotland regardless of who they are, have a route into the Pyramid and are treated equally and on their merits. It's an independent league free of Junior FA influence. This is saying to non-Junior clubs, if you want in, you have to join at the bottom rung of the WRJFA, completely unacceptable.
Point i just shows the real purpose, keeping the SJFA involved.
Is this the proposal talked about by the SJFA? tell the to GTF and press on.
Can you suggest a better way out of the current Labyrinth while enabling the retention of everthing good that has been achieved?
TJ in my opinion has an awful lot to answer for given the mess that he has overseen but in my view there is no harm whatsoever in seeking a compromise which makes everyone a winner and enables the Pyramid to flourish.
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2 hours ago, Pyramidic said:
Just wondering if there is any room for a compromise at this late stage.
1. WRJFA hold an EGM in the next couple of weeks. Declare that the league proposes to withdraw from the SJFA for 2020/21 season and applies to the WoSFL as a whole keeping its 4 divisions intact in the process.
2. Their clubs retain associate membership of the SJFA enabling them to enter the Junior Cup for 2020/21.
3. Other senior clubs in the HL, LL, EoSFL and SoSFL can apply for associate membership of the SJFA enabling them to enter the Junior Cup for 2020/21.
4. TJ and the SJFA Committee show some flexibility and common sense for the good of the Scottish semi-professional game and not continue to act as an obstacle to progress.
Could this act as a template or "has the horse already bolted"?
I possibly need to add some meat to the bones for this scenario is to be successfully implemented:a) The SJFA would have no part whatsoever to play in running or overseeing the new WoSFL.
b) Committee members of the old/current WRJFA that wish to be part of running the WoSFL would need to be fully converted to the role that the Pyramid has to play in the progession of Scottish semi-professional football.
c) There would be no place for "old-school" acolytes of the Junior "we have always done it this way and I know better because I wear a blazer" mentality.
d) The 63 WRJFA clubs move over as a group to become senior clubs while keeping their current structure.
e) Geographical integrity is maintained with ERJFA clubs going to EoSFL and SoSFL clubs remaining in their current league - with one exception Bonnyton Thistle.
f) Bonnyton Thistle as a current Tier 6 senior club may play as a 17th club in the WoSFL Premier Tier 6 if they desire.
g) New clubs such as Drumchapel and "separate entity" Community Clubs and Academy clubs may join at Tier 9.
h) All clubs may retain a link to their Junior roots by competing in the SJFA Junior Cup. Associate membership of the SJFA would be necessary to maintain this link.
i) The Junior Cup round dates are programmed by the SJFA to be assimilated within the Senior calendar.
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Just wondering if there is any room for a compromise at this late stage.
1. WRJFA hold an EGM in the next couple of weeks. Declare that the league proposes to withdraw from the SJFA for 2020/21 season and applies to the WoSFL as a whole keeping its 4 divisions intact in the process.
2. Their clubs retain associate membership of the SJFA enabling them to enter the Junior Cup for 2020/21.
3. Other senior clubs in the HL, LL, EoSFL and SoSFL can apply for associate membership of the SJFA enabling them to enter the Junior Cup for 2020/21.
4. TJ and the SJFA Committee show some flexibility and common sense for the good of the Scottish semi-professional game and not continue to act as an obstacle to progress.
Could this act as a template or "has the horse already bolted"?
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1 minute ago, Marten said:
That last paragraph is interesting: "Those that know our home ground of Memorial Park will perhaps appreciate the challenges to be faced as we attempt to meet any conditions of our application. We plan to work closely with all agencies and stakeholders in an effort to overcome these particular challenges in an appropriate timescale". That clearly means work is going on to enclose the ground.
Peebles Rovers and Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts comes to mind. Thornton should not be treated differently from these two clubs in my view.
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A good sign?
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Here we are in February 2020 when Gordon Parks writes that the "Pyramid scheme is ripping game apart and clubs are dying":
While in June 2018 he was writing:
"Scottish football won't move forward until we stop living in the past - Gordon Parks - Daily Record"
"Gordon believes it's time to focus on the future and stop looking back on glory nights of the past."
Here is a message for Gordon (and his followers) with regard to the Pyramid Scheme - STOP LIVING IN THE PAST!0 -
2 minutes ago, glensmad said:
The SJFA are still actively trying to get access to the pyramid for 2020/21,.....
What "cunning plan" is TJ now going to deliver that we have not seen before. Is it all bluster designed to mislead, misdirect and create further false hopes?
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Are there any WRJFA and ERJFA clubs that have already firmly fixed their flag to the SJFA mast and will definitely not move to the Pyramid for 2020/21 under any circumstances?
Do St. Anthony's currently fall within this category? Are they the only ones?
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4 hours ago, Pyramidic said:
Has anyone worked out what the EoSFL will look like if the 20 ERJFA (South) clubs + Luncarty, Tayport & Scone + Eyemouth are incorporated for 2020/21 ?
What would it look like if we have:
Tier 6 - EoSFL Premier (16 clubs)
Tier 7 - EoSFL First (16 clubs)
Tier 8 - EoSFL Second North (16 clubs)
Tier 8 - EoSFL Second South (16 clubs)
Is it just a dream or can it become a reality given the latest developments? Something for the ERJFA to get their teeth into for their forthcoming meeting. Tuesday?One can always rely on FairWeather Fan to come up with a very useful table (see below). Cheers.
3 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:Technically. I gave up on the regional one when I found out how annoying splitting West Lothian would be. I'll have a bash.
EDIT: Everything's obviously based on current standings. I haven't included Eyemouth since they're not officially returning yet as far as i'm aware.
So for the seeded Conferences I tried to follow the rules used by the EoS previously. When setting up the First Division Conferences this year it was League Position, Pts, GD that determined the higher ranking. Everyone else is just based on league position and what league they're in.
EoS Second Division Conference A EoS Second Division Conference B 1 9 Burntisland Shipyard 1 9 Tweedmouth Rangers 2 10 Ormiston 2 10 Easthouses Lily MW 3 11 Hawick Royal Albert United 3 11 Peebles Rovers 4 12 Arniston Rangers 4 12 Craigroyston 5 1 Livingston United 5 2 Pumpherston Juniors 6 3 Armadale Thistle 6 4 Fauldhouse United 7 5 Whitburn Juniors 7 6 Thornton Hibs 8 7 Bathgate Thistle 8 8 Harthill Royal 9 9 Kennoway Star Hearts 9 10 Lochore Welfare 10 7 Tayport 10 8 Scone Thistle 11 1 Rosyth 11 2 Stoneyburn Juniors 12 3 Newburgh Juniors 12 4 Kirkcaldy & Dysart 13 5 Sauchie Community 13 6 Lochgelly Albert 14 7 Linlithgow Rose Community 14 8 Syngenta 15 9 Bo'ness United Juniors 15 10 West Calder United Regional
EoS Second Division “North” EoS Second Division “South” 1 9 Burntisland Shipyard 1 9 Tweedmouth Rangers 2 12 Craigroyston 2 10 Ormiston 3 6 Thornton Hibs 3 10 Easthouses Lily MW 4 9 Kennoway Star Hearts 4 11 Hawick Royal Albert United 5 10 Lochore Welfare 5 11 Peebles Rovers 6 7 Tayport 6 12 Arniston Rangers 7 8 Scone Thistle 7 1 Livingston United 8 1 Rosyth 8 2 Pumpherston Juniors 9 3 Newburgh Juniors 9 3 Armadale Thistle 10 4 Kirkcaldy & Dysart 10 4 Fauldhouse United 11 5 Sauchie Community 11 5 Whitburn Juniors 12 6 Lochgelly Albert 12 7 Bathgate Thistle 13 7 Linlithgow Rose Community 13 8 Harthill Royal 14 8 Syngenta 14 2 Stoneyburn Juniors 15 9 Bo'ness United Juniors 15 10 West Calder United 1 -
Football CFB Podcast (Callum McFadden) v Sunday Mail (Gordon Parks)
Who do you believe? In my opinion Parksie needs to take a long hard look at himself coming up with such trash.
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Has anyone worked out what the EoSFL will look like if the 20 ERJFA (South) clubs + Luncarty, Tayport & Scone + Eyemouth are incorporated for 2020/21 ?
What would it look like if we have:
Tier 6 - EoSFL Premier (16 clubs)
Tier 7 - EoSFL First (16 clubs)
Tier 8 - EoSFL Second North (16 clubs)
Tier 8 - EoSFL Second South (16 clubs)
Is it just a dream or can it become a reality given the latest developments? Something for the ERJFA to get their teeth into for their forthcoming meeting. Tuesday?2 -
Any more meetings programmed?
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3 minutes ago, glensmad said:
Is that true, all clubs in the pyramid are supplied with a defribillator ? I was building the cost of that into our SFA club licence feasibility. That would be a huge bonus if that is the case.
Good point. This is the sort of issue that needs to be checked with the LL/EoSFL.
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10 hours ago, Shannon said:
What cup competitions would the new West of Scotland teams be involved in? A lot of clubs including mine at Irvine Meadow have a sizeable amount of our support wanting to stay Junior as don't know or understand the latest developments.
Can anyone explain all the benefits and any negatives so Junior teams can fully explain to guys who are not on Social Media for future EGMs and meetings...? In case anything folk have missed and for a run down of why teams like mine at Irvine Meadow need to join the pyramid now and not later.
Some of us recall the advantages that Kefc put forward for joining the mass exodus of Eastern Junior clubs to join the EoSFL. I do not think that there is a single club that has regretted the move. As the LL/EosFL will be setting up the WoSFL I suggest that a lot of the points made by Kefc are still relevant - see below.
QuoteWhat does the East of Scotland Football League have to offer?
• Membership of EOSFL which confirms acceptance of and commitment to the pyramid system thereby satisfying a mandatory requirement of being granted a Club Licence.• Automatic entry to the Scottish Cup for Champion Club irrespective of licencing status which will generate a minimum income in excess of £3,000• 3 ways of Scottish Cup Entry, EOS & SOS League Champions, Alex Jack Cup Winner, Any Licenced Club• £3,000 Funding towards ground improvements available to all un-licenced clubs looking to gain their SFA Licence• Up to £10,000 funding as an EOS club available from Scottish Football Partnership towards ground improvements.• Our ambition is to have all Members licenced as soon as possible and thereby automatically in the Scottish Cup every year.• Very likely more promotion places will be available to enter the Lowland League from Tier 6• Depending on interest from that area a possible West Of Scotland division would be looked at for tier 6• SFA Sports First Aid courses at heavily discounted rates (or free of charge). SFA Licence compliant• All clubs supplied with a defibrillator and associated training. SFA Licence compliant• Bespoke personalised first aid bag.• Personal Accident and Liability insurance incl. player to player liability paid for by the League. SFA Licence compliant• Match balls and training balls supplied each season.• Bespoke goalkeeping courses.• Coaching courses at heavily discounted rates (or free of charge) up to C Licence level.• Prize money for those Clubs finishing in the top four in the league.• A sound organisational structure with fixtures issued on a seasonal basis.• In combination with the Scottish Lowland League and the South of Scotland League an U20 development league for the development of a player pathway.• Automatic entry for the U20 team into the Scottish Youth Cup.19 points, 4 of them regarding finances? Fixture list, u20 League, exposure in national cups, SFA Licence, pyramid?
Can you make a case for clubs in the East to remain a Junior club that will see them prosper? It’s slowly dying the best non league “blue riband” competition in Scotland can’t even get a sponsor and hasn’t had for years, 1 example of where it’s at.1 -
The conundrum if the ERJFA is about to implode:
Geographical integrity v flexible common sense
Tweedmouth are in England. Geographically they should not be in the EOSFL but it is common sense that we include them. We all agree.
Tayport are in northern Fife. Geographically they should be in the EOSFL but common sense says they should be allowed to play in a newly created Tayside League should they wish given their juxta-position with Dundee.
Newburgh are in northern Fife. Geographically they should be in the EOSFL but a case can be made that they should be allowed to play in a newly created Tayside League should they wish given their proximity to Dundee.
Scone are in Perth and Kinross. Geographically they should be in the EOSFL. Common sense says they should follow the route provided by Kinnoull and Jeanfield if they wish but they could opt for a Tayside League.
Luncarty are in Perth and Kinross. Geographically the ground is a whisker outside the EOSFL while much of the village itself is inside the EOSFL. Common sense says they should follow the route provided by Kinnoull and Jeanfield if they wish but they could opt for a Tayside League.
Harthill ground is in West Lothian but the village is in North Lanarkshire. Geographically they should be in the EOSFL but common sense says they should be able to choose whether to follow the EOSFL or WOSFL route.
Fauldhouse are in West Lothian. Geographically they should be in the EOSFL but common sense says they are so near North Lanarkshire they should be able to choose whether to follow the EOSFL or WOSFL route (providing flexibility as in the EOSFL /Tayside options above).
Other issues:Kello moved to SOSFL?
Caledonian Braves Reserves exit the SOSFL?
Bonnyton Thistle exit the SOSFL?- if Geographical integrity v flexible common sense is won by the former.
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10 minutes ago, G4Mac said:
There is no need for anyone to move between regions. It wont be required. There are more than enough clubs in both regions to account for 'flux'.
Why muddy the waters further?We should eventually have a 16 team WOSFL Premier and a 16 team EOSFL Premier with two LL promotion places at stake for the respective winners of each league.
Let us say Caledonian Braves and Cumbernauld Colts get relegated from the LL. We will then have a situation of 17 teams in the WOSFL Premier and 15 teams in the EOSFL Premier.
We can equalise the situation by refusing a promotion place in the WOSFL Div 1 (creating huge discontent) and creating an additional promotion place from EOSFL Div 1 (creating huge celebration). Much fairer to move a club from WOSFL Premier margins to the EOSFL Premier (as they would in the English Pyramid).
I think we need the wisdom of Hibeejeebee on this one.
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1 minute ago, Burnie_man said:3 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:Fauldhouse would be a perfect club to oscillate between WOSFL and EOSFL at Tier 6 dependent on relegations from the Lowland League.
However, if JC cannot put a decent squad together they perhaps would be better off opting for Tiers 7 and 8 of the EOSFL.Nobody needs to move between regions, and nobody will.
You are doing a brilliant job BM but in a true Pyramid clubs on the margins will always need to oscillate at Tier 6. The Pyramid will not work properly if one insists on firm boundaries between WOSFL and EOSFL
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2 minutes ago, G4Mac said:
I'd say they really dont. Eos stays eos. Ersjfa stay eos. Wrsjfa stay west. South remain south for the time being.
Keeps it simple and ensures the integrity of the pyramid.Fauldhouse would be a perfect club to oscillate between WOSFL and EOSFL at Tier 6 dependent on relegations from the Lowland League.
However, if JC cannot put a decent squad together they perhaps would be better off opting for Tiers 7 and 8 of the EOSFL.
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36 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:
You can take fauldhouse out they wont get in wosfl now
History suggests that the Hoose have every right to go west if they choose.
Historically Fauldhouse played in the Lanarkshire Junior Football League1911-12 Division 2
Fauldhouse West Rovers 1st1912-13 Division 1
Fauldhouse West Rovers 2nd1919-20
Fauldhouse United1920-21
Fauldhouse United1921-22
Fauldhouse United 3rd
Lanarkshire Junior League Cup winners1922-23
Fauldhouse United 6th1923-24
Fauldhouse United 2nd1924-25 Division 1
Fauldhouse United 10th1925-26 Division 1
Fauldhouse United 10th1926-27 Division 1
Fauldhouse United 2nd
I think they were then part of the Intermediate dispute1940-41
Fauldhouse UnitedNB: Fauldhouse United previously known as Fauldhouse West Rovers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanarkshire_Junior_Football_League
NB: Jon Connolly has played for so many West Region clubs he deserves to take his team back to his old hunting grounds!GO WEST!! But only if we can put together a decent squad.
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Any reserve side can always be dressed as a separate "Academy or Community Club".. There are ways around the issue if Clubs are smart (or devious). I believe there are a few examples in England and the "sister clubs" even play in the Vase
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3 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:
Is there a possibility of Colt/Reserve/B Teams applying and joining the WoSFL if it's up and running next year? SoS/EoS league already has them
They can apply. Whether they would be accepted is another matter!!!
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This is where the pyramid takes us!! why get left behind?
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1 minute ago, Burnie_man said:
I feel a done deal coming on............
Of course minuted by TJ to assure the membership.
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Junior football, what is the future?
in Junior Football
Posted
I would not wish to to move Kello Rovers to the SoSFL.
Disappointingly you have previously indicated (many posts ago) that Glasgow University are unlikely to be interested in the WoSFL / going senior. It is therefore unlikey to be a problem that will need to be faced.