Game of throw-ins
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Posts posted by Game of throw-ins
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Re "clear and obvious error" I think there's some confusion about what this actually means.
Let's say there's an incident. The ref knows what he thinks he saw and he gives a yellow card.
He's asked to go to the monitor and watching the playback realises that what he thought he saw was not what actually happened. And that if he had seen what happened he'd have given a red card.
The playback has revealed a "clear and obvious error". The referee made his original decision based on what he thought happened but didn't. He now makes a correct decision based on what did happen.
Lots of people seem to be claiming that before he can amend the card additional criteria must be met. That, even if a red would have been a correct decision, if there any sort of argument that a yellow card could have been valid, then the the original yellow is not a "clear and obvious error" and should stand.
That looks daft. Only the referee knows whether the playback reveals that he made his decision based on an error. He knows what he thinks the correct decision would be now that he has a better understanding of the facts. It is not his job to try to work out whether someone else might deem it was only a yellow card offence, thus rendering his error "not clear and obvious". His job is to make the right decision now that he has a better understanding of the facts.
A case of there not being a "clear and obvious error" would be one where what the referee saw looking at the monitor was consistent with what he originally saw. Not one where the original decision, based on a misunderstanding of what happened, could be defended as correct even though the referee would have made a different one had he seen it clearly.
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8 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:
Whilst I’m overreacting to this, my other gripe with these requests is that I always strongly suspect it has less to do with increasing their chances in Europe, those games always take care of themselves, it’s usually just trying to mitigate the damage to the domestic campaign.
I was about to type something similar. In effect we'd we agreeing to something mainly intended to improve Killie's chances of taking points off us this season. I hope we're not that gullible.
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Well done Killie.
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BBC announcing a tripe Killie change. Seems a bit harsh on the guys coming on.
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10 minutes ago, mcginns said:
If refer to my previous reply re the reaction to beating St Johnstone being a bit embarrassing. Don't take my word for it...check out what Willie Miller said on the radio today.
This is not a reflection of how good the fans think the team is. It's a cultural change in how players behave at the end of matches. Chairmen and/or managers have decided it's good marketing for players to salute the fans for their support. It's not specific to Aberdeen. Some old timers like Miller don't understand it or like it because in their day you only did it if you'd done something special.
St Mirren players did exactly the same today. They went to salute their fans at the end of the match, and got prolonged cheering and applause. After being gubbed 3-1 at Pittodrie. Incidentally, how embarrassed were you by that?
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34 minutes ago, mcginns said:
Aberdeen clearly look a better prospect under the new manager but I think the Dons fans are getting bit carried away with stringing a few wins together.
I think this is bollocks. None of the Aberdeen fans I know think that the team that played today (especially minus Miovski) looks strong enough for us to expect top 4. Clarkson and Polvara will make a difference but what will probably determine our season is how good our recruitment is from here on in. We have one guy signed, another rumoured to be signing and hopefully a couple more to come. We definitely need an injection of quality.
So far Thelin is getting reasonable performances and good results from a squad that still looks quite a bit weaker than the one that finished last season. Neither Morris, nor Gueye, nor Sokler would have been first picks last season. Either these players have to start delivering better performances than they have so far, or we need to sign at least a couple of players that are upgrades.
I'm optimistic that that will happen, but the idea that I or most Aberdeen fans are blown away by what we've seen so far isn't true.
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I like her a lot, probably my favourite pop/rock/whatever artist out of those who've made their names post 2010 or thereabouts. My only criticism is that the post Norman Fucking Rockwell stuff doesn't hit the spot as often - it can seem a bit bloodless compared to her earlier work and more of an acquired taste. I hear her next album will be country/Americana and I'm intrigued by that.
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Roos has been Jekyll and Hyde, extended runs of good form where he's looked as good or better than anybody we're likely to get and long runs of erratic form where he's looked like a guy it would be very difficult to build a solid defence around. I don't think we can afford the gamble of keeping him not knowing which version we will get. He hasn't helped his cause by clearly signalling that he wouldn't be staying when his form was decent and he expected to have options and then signalling his interest in staying when his form turned to shit and the options dried up.
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2 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:
I'm a bit surprised at that, tbh.
How do Hibees feel about it?
It seems surprising to me as well. I would have thought that getting the manager right was the first priority and I don't find it hard to imagine that some candidates would baulk at the idea of reporting to Malky Mackay.
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43 minutes ago, well fan for life said:
Aye. Both handballs are ridiculous to even consider as fouls. The issue is that I don't actually think anybody can confidently say what is a handball in these instances now. We've seen even less obvious handballs given as penalties (this one last week for example, but there's been countless others). The rule is confusing and the consistency is infuriating.
I mentioned it in our thread but it does feel like sunk cost fallacy. The VAR system does not work properly, it's being staffed by people who are incompetent and the powers that be think that it'll work fine. Waiting 5-6 minutes for a decision to be awarded whatever way is not improving anyones match day experience.
People talk about consistency, but while I agree more of that would be a good thing it isn't the main problem for me. It's that games are turning on events that are outside the players' control.
We badly need to re-introduce the concept that a hand ball needs to be deliberate to be a foul. I've no problem with a penalty being awarded if a player sticks out his arms to "make himself big" and the ball hits his hand, but there needs to be an element of intentionality. I can see no other way of doing that than going back to letting referees decide whether in their opinion the player intentionally handled the ball or intentionally put his arms in a position that increased the chance of his team getting an advantage from the ball striking a hand or arm. Guidance about arms in "artificial positions" creates more problems than it solves. I know this means more reliance on referees' subjectivity, something that will always send a shiver up the spine of Scottish football fans who don't support one of two clubs, but it has to be better than what we have now.
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1 hour ago, 1GregStewart said:
I’m totally in agreement with the ‘sack the board’ chants last night. Something has to change there.
I was very uncomfortable with the abuse at the players though, who sheepishly came over to applaud the fans and got ‘you’re not fit to wear the shirt’ blasted straight at them.
These are the players we have until the summer, like it or not. There’s a league place to preserve and a cup semi to go for, it’s time to rally round and not spit the dummy. It’s totally counter productive and making things worse. Have to work with what you have got so non point complains about what we have and all pull together to make the best of it possible.I hear regularly that we are such a great travelling support etc. Well it’s time to show it for real when the going has got tough.
I agree up to a point, but I'd like to know whose idea it was for the players to go to applaud the fans after a very poor performance and result. They did the same against St Johnstone at home. I get the reasoning behind it, shows the fans the players still care, but the inevitable outcome is the players get abused and humiliated, which must do their confidence no good and lessen their affection for the club's support. However well intentioned its a crass idea. Let's get back to trooping off the park with your tail between your legs after a bad result and letting management deal with the supporters' frustration.
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4 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:
On the topic of manager comments, I generally agree that they’re pretty irrelevant but disagree that they should be disregarded.
They had this debate on the here we go podcast and the guy Richard hay (who I think is really good) was arguing black and white that it should be totally disregarded but I think there’s exceptions.
In particular post match interviews, you can get nuggets from managers when emotions are at their highest. And if you have seen a manager over a long period then you can see trends in what they say. Robson was frustrating but I tended to ignore most of his comments as he seemed like a guy who didn’t appreciate a camera in his face and just blurted stuff out in the hope he’d get away quietly.
Warnock however likes to make it about him so I think, rightly or wrongly, what he says gets more scrutiny. I do think what he’s been saying is poor and you find yourself desperately hoping the internal message is much more useful to the team. I can already see him in 6 months time doing after dinner speeches down south where he slates this team and Scottish football whilst taking no responsibility.
There's a strong correlation between a manager having got to the point where he's routinely criticising his players in public and his team being in a freefall that can only be stopped by getting rid of him. It's generally the most obvious sign that the wheels have come off. You can theorise that these remarks don't or shouldn't matter and maybe they're indicative of the problem rather than the cause of it, but in my view we're well past the point where action needs to be taken. I'm not sure that a different manager would save us from relegation, but I think he'd have a better chance than Warnock.
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5 hours ago, kingjoey said:
People who continually go on about us getting rid of Derek McInnes when we shouldn't have, have forgotten that his contract was up at the end of that season and he wasn't signing a new one. He was going anyway.
If you really think that I have a bridge you might be interested in.
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22 hours ago, Thenorthernlight said:
The irony & brass neck of some Celtic-minded pundits etc to cite budgets is laughable & embarrassing.
Just as embarrassing are claims I keep seeing from Celtic fans that the dice is loaded against them in the Champions League because the powers that be just want the big clubs to be successful. Excerpts from a Celtic fans' board during last night's match:
I hate this competition, now. It’s so skewed towards ensuring the elite reach the latter stages, it’s barely competitive any more.
Seems every year we get the "wee team" treatment.
Yeah, [the referees] want to keep their job i..so will always rule in favour of the teams with the most money
Marks for self awareness, as usual, a solid 0/10.8 -
8 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:
It'd be interesting to know what was going on in his life in that spell at Aberdeen. He certainly bucked the footballing trend by seeming to knock back both Sunderland and Rangers. Must have had his reasons.
However, observers considering following his example will note that he's ended up in a relatively shite job. It seems he made two bad career calls in hindsight. Other managers will have noted that.
I don't think it's as mysterious as you think. Most managers are not at lesser clubs in 6 years time, they are out of the game. Both Rangers and Sunderland were high-risk basket cases at the time McInnes was offered those jobs. Both looked very much like "work miracles or get sacked early and put a massive dent in your CV" offers. With Milne in charge at Aberdeen he would have felt he had as much job security as any football manager. He couldn't have anticipated the arrival of Cormack with his naive conviction that you could play gung-ho football and be successful on our budget and that only McInnes's negativity was standing in the way. Since then we've had two managers who didn't last until the end of what should have been their first full season. My own prediction, which I fervently hope will turn out to be wrong, is that Robson will be the third in a row.
No doubt McInnes hoped a 3rd offer would come in from a club that was bigger than Aberdeen but not in as deep doo-doo as Rangers or Sunderland at the time of their offers. He could have got lucrative contracts with Rangers or Sunderland and laughed all the way to the bank if he was sacked, but he put the longevity of his careeer ahead of money. When he looks back over the past few seasons I think he'll curse the advent of Cormack, and he'll curse the fact that the success rate of his signings, always a bit of a lottery, dropped in his last couple of seasons. I doubt that he thinks he made bad decisions about Rangers or Sunderland on the basis of what he knew at the time.
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4 hours ago, tarapoa said:
He spent ages talking about Hearts last week.
Still not sure if he's that bad a manager, or Robson is just better at standing up to the powers-that-be in all the play out from the back open attacking philosophy stuff.
When he was interim in the period between Glass and Goodwin, Robson gave an interview before one of the matches that suggested a pragmatic approach. I can't remember the exact words but the gist of it was that you needed to set up a team to get results which wasn't always about playing nice football. I remember thinking at the time that it was a surprisingly honest and/or brave and/or stupid thing to say if he had serious hopes of getting the job.
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13 minutes ago, AJF said:
Aye lads, the appeal will be thrown out by the SFA due to who you play at the weekend due to the excellent relationship we have with them...
You do understand that a coward's continual fawning over his bully isn't proof of their excellent relationship?
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On 05/03/2023 at 11:42, Dons_1988 said:
Anyone else slightly concerned we might get suckered into appointing robson? Particularly if we beat hearts.
I just have a bad feeling that he’s not the man. Last night could’ve gone badly if United didn’t waste their early pressure.
I think we’ve seen work rate and energy and back to basics but nothing much beyond that.
This is a (more than slight) concern for me. I don't like interim appointments that drag on for more than around 3 weeks. Unless your interim manager does terribly, a bandwagon inevitably starts up to make the appointment permanent, even though nothing on his CV would have justified his appointment at the time he took over as caretaker.
Getting rid of a failing manager almost always leads to a temporary improvement in form. Many interims have been given the job permanently on that basis, and while I haven't performed a statistical analysis, my clear impression is that it's usually been a very bad idea.
I've nothing against Robson personally, but doing ok or even quite well in a handful of games is far too flimsy a basis for making an appointment as important as this one.
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Just now, cyderspaceman said:
And "bad" means "good" , and "wicked" means "wonderful".
Depends upon who is saying it. Innit, like?
Those examples are different though. People who use "wicked" to mean wonderful are not being ignorant. They know what the word ordinarily means, but are deliberately using it to mean something else.
People who use disinterested to mean uninterested on the other hand are just people who are unaware that the words have different meanings. They haven't thought I'm going to be a bit of a rebel and go for the unorthodox here. They just don't know the difference.
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6 minutes ago, johnnydun said:
From Dictionary.com....
Disinterested has two meanings. The first and most widely accepted one is “impartial; unbiased by personal interest or advantage” as in “A disinterested observer is the best judge of behavior.” The second meaning is “not interested,” as in “Having not followed Justin Bieber’s career, she was disinterested in the artist’s new release.”
I'm entirely familiar with the history of the usage.
Whatever the dictionaries say, no educated person would use the word in the second meaning given here.
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13 hours ago, johnnydun said:
You entirely miss my point.
"Disinterested" doesn't mean the same as uninterested and is not a synonym for apathetic.
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32 minutes ago, johnnydun said:
I wonder why @ApathyAFC was so disinterested in this site.
From the Oxford Dictionary:
Apathy: noun. Lack of interest, enthusiasm, or concern.
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19 minutes ago, logie skid boys said:
He’s def back . I be surprised if he has come back to go away again after pre season .
Im thinking he’s giving it go. Could well be wrong though.I don't know any more than anyone else, but my first thought was that he'd presumably be in breach of his contract if he didn't turn up for pre-season training. He may just be here to protect his contractual rights until some sort of termination agreement is reached.
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Sadly almost all our "respectable" seasons in the past 25 years have come under two managers, Calderwood and McInnes. Take those two guys out of the equation and our record is utterly dire. One top 4 finish I believe, although I haven't checked. All we've done is revert to standards achieved by more typical Aberdeen managers.
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Celtic v Rangers: Sun 1st Sep, 12:30
in Scottish Premiership General Chatter
Posted
Michael Grant wrote a column about this a few weeks ago. He argued that the idea that Scottish football was still a duopoly was a myth not supported by the evidence. We have had one dominant club for well over a decade and that is highly unlikely to change in the foreseeable future. A rare outburst of honesty on the subject from a MSM Scottish football journalist: usually they are in collusion not to kill the golden goose called "Rangers revival may be just around the corner".