VincentGuerin

I actually know what both teams will be. The teams will be St Johnstone and Hibs.

We pioneered it in the modern era because we had a club that started Champions League-style spending before the Champions League began. Rangers were ahead of that curve in the late 80s, and it shafted the league. Ultimately, they were among the biggest victims of that. Other countries have simply followed as the CL has driven their leagues to similar inequality, while Scotland has just carried on down the path. As soon as the CL was created, this was the path.

The two are not mutually exclusive. Scotland is among the world leaders in this, but to imply that Europe's league system is in good health is simple denial of reality.

Depends what you mean, really. Spain has had four winners since 2000, but Barca and Real have won all but six titles since 1984. Is that healthy? It had five winners in 11 years before that. The Bundesliga has Bayern at ten in a row. It had five different winners in the decade before that. Healthy? France had five different winners in five years, but since then have eight PSG wins in ten years. Ferencvaros have just won their fourth in a row in Hungary. By 12 points. The year before they won it by 20 points. The two before by 13 points each time. Dinamo have won 16 of the last 17 in Croatia. Brugge have won four of the last five in Belgium. Got a scare last year, but the two before that by 16 and 15 points. In Portugal Porto and Benfica have won all but two titles since 1982. Healthy? Olympiakos have won 16 of the last 20 in Greece. By 12 points last season. 16 points the season before. Red Bull have won nine in a row in Austria. By 15 points last season. By 16 points the season before. I'll stop there because I'm bored now, but there are more. This is unquestionably a Europe-wide problem. Just because there are some exceptions, it does not negate the fact that the league system has been broken by the structure of modern football.

Ron might hire him to do his version of Father and Son on the pitch at half-time.

This discussion is a close relative of the annual 'Should we be happy when the OF qualify for the Champions' League?' chat. OF fans fall over themselves to point out that other clubs get chucked a few quid and make out that we should be happy with that. But they completely miss the point that they make so much money from the enterprise that the other clubs would be better off overall if none of it happened whatsoever. They just don't see football in the same way.

We either care about football governance, ownership, and the security of our clubs, or we don't. It's amazing that people give Livingston such a pass. I'll leave the thread to discussion of the match now.

All we can hope is that eventually the chronic lack of interest in your club leads to someone doing the same to you. The fucking brass neck of listing your victim's honours on your website! What an awful shower. At least down south there's still a decent number of fans of all clubs who will never set foot in Stadium MK. They're rightly reviled and seen as something to just be either treated with contempt or completelty ignored. Scottish football has just let Livingston slink in and be accepted. It's very poor stuff.

'F3nian isn't bigoted, you see...' Your club is a wrong'un. It shouldn't be welcome.

Your club shamelesly lists the honours won by the club it murdered on its website. Livingston's blood-stained history seems to have been just quietly forgotten by Scottish football. Your club is a load of shite.

i understand Livingston fans' need to obfuscate when it comes to this issue. There's simply no defence of your 'club'. It's a disgrace that Scottish football has normalised Livingston.

What's this measured pish? Ronanov IN IMO!

That's not how you spell 'September'.

Is this a serious question? Your club is a disgrce and so is the passive acceptance of your presence by the Scottish football community. You are MK Dons and you should f**k off.

Who's shagger? I absolutely am not behind him. And I wouldn't quit if I was.

You support a franchise. You don't get to have an opinion on anyone having a mare.

Franchise v Bigots Not for me, Clive. A liquidation - Liquidation draw, please.

I'm confused by all the different unions and dates. Can anyone tell me whether I'm fucked trying to use a train in Scotland on Saturday or not?

What about Strathclyde Partnership for Transubstantiation though, the ones who run the subway? FTFY IMO.

8 nil Shankland, Hearts with 7.

Any going spare?

You, sir, are a fucking diddy.

The point is, it wasn't close to biting you on the arse. You won the league at a stroll. And you wouldn't have had to replace Griffiths with another 31-goal striker. As mentioned, you won the league with three games to spare. You could have replaced him with someone less prolific and won it anyway. And Celtic would have done. You could have managed fine without his hat-trick in the 8-1 win over Accies, or his goal against Dundee in the 6-0 win, or his injury-time goal when you beat ICT 3-0. Of course he scored important goals, but the idea Celtic would have been at serious risk without him is over-doing it.

Maybe not overly panicked about Aberdeen making it, but concerned with themselves not making it, absolutely. And I think you're playing the classic OF supporter game of playing up the jeopardy your side faced. Firstly, you did have Griffiths, and he did score loads of goals. Secondly, you did win the league comfortably. With seven games to go Celtic were seven points clear. It was won with three games to spare. Thirdly, Celtic clearly had the financial clout, and, nobody really doubts, the will, to spend a bit more if necessary. Aberdeen didn't.

Absolutely no chance Celtic would stand by and let anyone else get a shot at the Champions League money. Even if it had meant chucking a bit more than they really wanted to at Aberdeen just to disrupt them, that's what they'd have done.