The Falkirk FC Thread

[BPM]

3 hours ago, Hartleys18/19Army said:

I understand fans want to be loyal to Donaldson with some of the defences we are reading on here but it's a red, simple as that. It happens, we survived it, let's move on. 

Nothing to do with loyalty to Donaldson. I personally think he is a bit unlucky. He has won the ball and certainly not intentionally tried to nail the guy. 

[Shodwall cat]

Just now, Jimmy1876 said:

You've completely not understood what I've said. It doesn't stop freak accidents, but it does make people think twice before making a reckless tackle. It stops people chancing it and massively reduces injuries that way. I remember you were also happy to let players get dementia because of heading the ball so just gonna say I think you need to adjust your priorities. The long term safety and health of players is not something to exploit for your entertainment because you think it's more fun to watch. The reason dangerous tackles are seen less often these days is because of red cards.  Simple as that. 

As I keep saying players  in the vast majority of cases don't have time to think twice and football is all about instinct. You appear to think that when playing top level football players are going to be able to stop have a wee think and then way up the decision on whether to make a tackle or not. It just doesn't work that way.  The real  bad deliberate leg break  tackles are obvious because they are the ones that occur when a player actually does have time to think about it.  It's a predetermined act not a  split second occurrence. 

The high feet  issue was never a major problem in the game though . Very few times did you ever see it happening before and now the only difference is that the very few times it occurs we are red carding and ruining games . 

[Disco Duck]

9 minutes ago, Shodwall cat said:

The high feet  issue was never a major problem in the game though . Very few times did you ever see it happening before and now the only difference is that the very few times it occurs we are red carding and ruining games . 

You really are a fucking dinosaur.  Did you honestly see that player get taken out yesterday, purely because of high feet, in a challenge you could hear at the back of the stand, and think there was nothing wrong with it? 

[Jimmy1876]

19 minutes ago, Shodwall cat said:

As I keep saying players  in the vast majority of cases don't have time to think twice and football is all about instinct. You appear to think that when playing top level football players are going to be able to stop have a wee think and then way up the decision on whether to make a tackle or not. It just doesn't work that way.  The real  bad deliberate leg break  tackles are obvious because they are the ones that occur when a player actually does have time to think about it.  It's a predetermined act not a  split second occurrence. 

The high feet  issue was never a major problem in the game though . Very few times did you ever see it happening before and now the only difference is that the very few times it occurs we are red carding and ruining games . 

You are doing a huge discredit to the players. They train probably their whole lives to be knowledgeable and skilled enough to make those split second decisions. Of course they have time to think, that's literally where the talent in decision making lies. We've seen the improvement Morrison has made in that regard. It's just a fundamental of any job really, relying on training to make fast decisions so I don't agree with what you're saying at all. The decision made by Donaldson was the wrong one. He looked to make a tackle and probably didn't forsee the player falling into him which is why it becomes a freak accident. But are you seriously trying to argue that Donaldson hasn't seen the player running with the ball and decided to make the tackle with feet high enough to get the ball?

Edited April 21 by Jimmy1876

[Shodwall cat]

50 minutes ago, Disco Duck said:

If an action has a greater potential to cause harm, accidental or not, it’s a red card.   If you don’t want to get sent off for it, don’t jump with your foot at head height.

Split seconds again your eyes on the ball you don't have time to think through every scenario. These things happen in the blink of an eye. I'm sure if bavidge had had loads of time to think about it he wouldn't have kept running and instead would've stopped before he got anywhere near Coll. 

[Shodwall cat]

24 minutes ago, Jimmy1876 said:

You are doing a huge discredit to the players. They train probably their whole lives to be knowledgeable and skilled enough to make those split second decisions. Of course they have time to think, that's literally where the talent in decision making lies. We've seen the improvement Morrison has made in that regard. It's just a fundamental of any job really, relying on training to make fast decisions so I don't agree with what you're saying at all. The decision made by Donaldson was the wrong one. He looked to make a tackle and probably didn't forsee the player falling into him which is why it becomes a freak accident. But are you seriously trying to argue that Donaldson hasn't seen the player running with the ball and decided to make the tackle with feet high enough to get the ball?

I can only presume that you have never ever played football at any competitive level if you think that. 

Bavidge didn't have the ball. If he had the ball it would be a completely different scenario he is running towards the ball coll is running towards the ball. Coll kicks the ball cleanly over the head of bavidge and then collides with bavidge.  Neither player is expecting to collide with the other one or it would never have happened. 

[Jimmy1876]

35 minutes ago, Shodwall cat said:

I can only presume that you have never ever played football at any competitive level if you think that. 

Bavidge didn't have the ball. If he had the ball it would be a completely different scenario he is running towards the ball coll is running towards the ball. Coll kicks the ball cleanly over the head of bavidge and then collides with bavidge.  Neither player is expecting to collide with the other one or it would never have happened. 

Ah well you know what they say about making assumptions. You don't know me or if I have or have not played. And it's irrelevant. Sport moves on as I'm sure it has from when you played. It's nice to live back in the days sometimes but dinosaurs do become extinct. As I've mentioned the reason there are fewer dangerous tackles these days is because of a fear of red cards and players being capable of making far safer decisions despite what you seem to believe. It's okay to admit you weren't capable of making fast decisions but we are lucky that players can now. And I'll repeat myself, clearly you have no respect for the safety of players and you've shown it a number of times so I will leave the conversation here. I am just glad the players and referees at the very least have more care for preventing injuries than you. 

[Disco Duck]

46 minutes ago, Shodwall cat said:

Split seconds again your eyes on the ball you don't have time to think through every scenario. These things happen in the blink of an eye. I'm sure if bavidge had had loads of time to think about it he wouldn't have kept running and instead would've stopped before he got anywhere near Coll. 

No, you don’t have time, you learn just not do to it in the first place.  It’s clumsy and will eventually hurt someone.

im impressed you are genuinely blinkered enough to start a “Bavidge shouldn’t have run into the boot that was at head height” argument.   To extend your ridiculous argument, that’s the equivalent of saying I shouldn’t have been overtaking someone at 70mph in the fast lane when someone decided to swerve into the lane without checking and take me out.

Coll was unlucky he caught him, but he did, his foot shouldn’t have been there and he deserved to get sent off.

You are wildly wildly wrong on this.

[Jimmy1876]

Just now, Disco Duck said:

No, you don’t have time, you learn just not do to it in the first place.  It’s clumsy and will eventually hurt someone.

im impressed you are genuinely blinkered enough to start a “Bavidge shouldn’t have run into the boot that was at head height” argument.   To extend your ridiculous argument, that’s the equivalent of saying I shouldn’t have been overtaking someone at 70mph in the fast lane when someone decided to swerve into the lane without checking and take me out.

Coll was unlucky he caught him, but he did, his foot shouldn’t have been there and he deserved to get sent off.

You are wildly wildly wrong on this.

No but you forget that players are incapable of controlling their body parts and Col's leg in the air had a mind of it's own. No way he could have decided not to put a foot in the air. There simply wasn't enough time 

[Disco Duck]

14 minutes ago, Jimmy1876 said:

No but you forget that players are incapable of controlling their body parts and Col's leg in the air had a mind of it's own. No way he could have decided not to put a foot in the air. There simply wasn't enough time 

Poor lad.

[BPM]

21 minutes ago, Disco Duck said:

No, you don’t have time, you learn just not do to it in the first place.  It’s clumsy and will eventually hurt someone.

im impressed you are genuinely blinkered enough to start a “Bavidge shouldn’t have run into the boot that was at head height” argument.   To extend your ridiculous argument, that’s the equivalent of saying I shouldn’t have been overtaking someone at 70mph in the fast lane when someone decided to swerve into the lane without checking and take me out.

Coll was unlucky he caught him, but he did, his foot shouldn’t have been there and he deserved to get sent off.

You are wildly wildly wrong on this.

I agree his foot is really high but I am not really sure (having watched it about 10 times) how else he clears the ball. The only way I think he get out without fouling the player is to let him have the ball. It wasn’t really there to head it unless he dived at it.  In fact Henderson missed a header before which put Donaldson into an almost impossible position. By the letter of the law not he has to get a red but circumstances make him very unlucky. 

[Disco Duck]

5 minutes ago, BPM said:

I agree his foot is really high but I am not really sure (having watched it about 10 times) how else he clears the ball. The only way I think he get out without fouling the player is to let him have the ball. It wasn’t really there to head it unless he dived at it.  In fact Henderson missed a header before which put Donaldson into an almost impossible position. By the letter of the law not he has to get a red but circumstances make him very unlucky. 

But that’s the whole point.  If you can’t do it without endangering an opponent, don’t do it - or take the consequences. 

that’s like saying how was Suarez supposed to stop that shot going in without palming it off the line. 

[Shodwall cat]

9 minutes ago, Jimmy1876 said:

Ah well you know what they say about making assumptions. You don't know me or if I have or have not played. And it's irrelevant. Sport moves on as I'm sure it has from when you played. It's nice to live back in the days sometimes but dinosaurs do become extinct. As I've mentioned the reason there are fewer dangerous tackles these days is because of a fear of red cards and players being capable of making far safer decisions despite what you seem to believe. It's okay to admit you weren't capable of making fast decisions but we are lucky that players can now. And I'll repeat myself, clearly you have no respect for the safety of players and you've shown it a number of times so I will leave the conversation here. I am just glad the players and referees at the very least have more care for preventing injuries than you. 

The vast majority of fouls in every match at any level of football are caused by players making the wrong split second decisions during a match. I can nick that ball away, I can get to that ball without getting the man and so on.Doesn't matter what level you are playing at players simply cannot with the pace of the game get every decision they make right.  Quite rightly the deliberate leg breaker foul has just about been eradicated from the game but we are still seeing more red cards   now than ever before at the very top level of the game. despite your claim that players are far better at making decisions than ever before.I'm all for red cards for the really bad tackles but I also want to try and keep 11 men on the park . 

 

[Disco Duck]

Just now, Shodwall cat said:

The vast majority of fouls in every match at any level of football are caused by players making the wrong split second decisions during a match. I can nick that ball away, I can get to that ball without getting the man and so on.Doesn't matter what level you are playing at players simply cannot with the pace of the game get every decision they make right.  Quite rightly the deliberate leg breaker foul has just about been eradicated from the game but we are still seeing more red cards   now than ever before at the very top level of the game. despite your claim that players are far better at making decisions than ever before.I'm all for red cards for the really bad tackles but I also want to try and keep 11 men on the park . 

 

Please tell me you are nowhere near refereeing games any more.

[Shodwall cat]

7 minutes ago, Disco Duck said:

Please tell me you are nowhere near refereeing games any more.

I officiate regularly and follow the laws to the letter doesn't mean I agree with them all. I'd have sent Coll off but I'd have felt incredibly harsh doing it. I mean some of the examples of red cards these days are hard to agree with. A player is running with the ball for instance . Another player tackles him sliding in from the side. The player with the ball in controlling it whilst running forwards foot bounces off the ball and on to the tacklers foot on the deck. Thats given as an example of a red card to be given against the player running with the ball.  It's crazy as it's completely unintentional and the player with the ball has no idea that his foot is going to bounce off the ball on to the player on the deck. It's nonsense. 

[Springfield]

Two games to go, interesting to see who clinches the play offs at both ends.

[Shodwall cat]

11 minutes ago, Disco Duck said:

But that’s the whole point.  If you can’t do it without endangering an opponent, don’t do it - or take the consequences. 

that’s like saying how was Suarez supposed to stop that shot going in without palming it off the line. 

I would like to think though that Coll had no idea that he was endangering an opponent when he went in for that challenge. He certainly doesn't come across as that sort of player. His disciplinary record this season has been exemplary.

[BPM]

9 minutes ago, Disco Duck said:

But that’s the whole point.  If you can’t do it without endangering an opponent, don’t do it - or take the consequences. 

that’s like saying how was Suarez supposed to stop that shot going in without palming it off the line. 

I am not really arguing against the decision but players do make split second decisions and like yesterday they sometimes don’t come off. Really not sure what he could have done yesterday that didn’t work against him/the team. 

[Shodwall cat]

Just now, BPM said:

I am not really arguing against the decision but players do make split second decisions and like yesterday they sometimes don’t come off. Really not sure what he could have done yesterday that didn’t work against him/the team. 

Exactly. I don't think for a minute that coll knew he was endangeting his opponent by making that challenge.  It was a split second misjudgement  which unfortunately cost him dearly.

[Jimmy1876]

3 minutes ago, BPM said:

I am not really arguing against the decision but players do make split second decisions and like yesterday they sometimes don’t come off. Really not sure what he could have done yesterday that didn’t work against him/the team. 

This is the point though. It was a bad decision and he was punished for it. If we stop red cards then players will no longer have to think about making those decisions and going in for a tackle will not seem a risk anymore. More players will be injured as a result. Knowing that you can get a red card for a poor decision forces players to make an attempt to think. They won't get it right every time but just because it was accidental it doesn't mean you can get away with endangering others on the park.