The Falkirk FC Thread

[RC_Bairn]

3 minutes ago, Shodwall cat said:

I thought there was a planned meeting to decide on the way ahead for fss. If that's the case then surely no decision has been made as of yet.  I was always of the opinion that once the FSS had arrived at it's 25 percent then the money would be used for investment in various things to be decided between the members. Surely the 3 legged stool wouldn't work if one leg had far more shares than the other two anyway.I would suggest that if you are a member then you go to the up coming meeting and find out what's happening before spitting the dummy . Anyway I suppose after a good result on Saturday some folk had to have something to moan about.

That's rich coming from one of the biggest moaners on here.  A few points to clarify:

1.  FSS members cannot dictate what their money is spent on.  Once it's in the club's coffers then it's entirely at the discretion of the BoD how to use it.

2. There has to be flexibility in the three legged stool model.  If one leg has money to invest are we really saying they can't because the other two legs are not going to invest? That's madness and will cripple the club.

[Kevin James Left Knee]

Last week I resigned from the FSS committee. I absolutely remain in favour of FSS and encourage people to join and increase its influence.

My resignation was because of a number of issues including the lack of enthusiasm on the FSS committee by some people to challenge the Board when there is a dispute. I was told by significant members on the committee that FSS should never try to bring an idea to the Board if there is no chance that the Board will support it.

FSS is independent, and should be a trade union for the fans and not simply a fund raising cheerleading organisation which some people want it to be.

I still support this Board but there is a fight coming about what terms all all future monies from FSS should be given to the club. That is the purpose of the 1st September FSS members' meeting which I will be at and where I intend to propose a method for future payment terms.

[Shodwall cat]

5 minutes ago, RC_Bairn said:

That's rich coming from one of the biggest moaners on here.  A few points to clarify:

1.  FSS members cannot dictate what their money is spent on.  Once it's in the club's coffers then it's entirely at the discretion of the BoD how to use it.

2. There has to be flexibility in the three legged stool model.  If one leg has money to invest are we really saying they can't because the other two legs are not going to invest? That's madness and will cripple the club.

Let's face it they can only spend it better than the previous lot that's for sure. I've rarely moaned about anything on here of late other than the previous board nearly putting us out of business by burning through every penny we had in the bank whilst also leaving us mid table in league one.  I'd just rather wait and attend the FSS meeting to find out the facts before bumping my gums about things on here.  I'll raise my concerns if necessary when the time is right 

[RC_Bairn]

2 minutes ago, Shodwall cat said:

Let's face it they can only spend it better than the previous lot that's for sure. I've rarely moaned about anything on here of late other than the previous board nearly putting us out of business by burning through every penny we had in the bank whilst also leaving us mid table in league one.  I'd just rather wait and attend the FSS meeting to find out the facts before bumping my gums about things on here.  I'll raise my concerns if necessary when the time is right 

An interesting deflection

[Shodwall cat]

4 minutes ago, Kevin James Left Knee said:

Last week I resigned from the FSS committee. I absolutely remain in favour of FSS and encourage people to join and increase its influence.

My resignation was because of a number of issues including the lack of enthusiasm on the FSS committee by some people to challenge the Board when there is a dispute. I was told by significant members on the committee that FSS should never try to bring an idea to the Board if there is no chance that the Board will support it.

FSS is independent, and should be a trade union for the fans and not simply a fund raising cheerleading organisation which some people want it to be.

I still support this Board but there is a fight coming about what terms all all future monies from FSS should be given to the club. That is the purpose of the 1st September FSS members' meeting which I will be at and where I intend to propose a method for future payment terms.

Good to here that this will be discussed in full at this meeting and that no decision has been made on how future monies are invested yet.  The FSS has the ultimate sanction surely of simply withholding the cash if the bod don't provide flexibility in how this is spent or just spend it how they wish.

[Shodwall cat]

3 minutes ago, RC_Bairn said:

An interesting deflection

Deflection just a simple fact. The current bod may yet prove to be inadequate for the job who knows but  I can't see them being as dreadful as the previous bunch who will surely go down in history. Time will tell and I look forward to finding out the facts at the FSS meeting. I'd hope everyone that can will attend.

[roman_bairn]

5 minutes ago, Shodwall cat said:

Deflection just a simple fact. The current bod may yet prove to be inadequate for the job who knows but  I can't see them being as dreadful as the previous bunch who will surely go down in history. Time will tell and I look forward to finding out the facts at the FSS meeting. I'd hope everyone that can will attend.

What previous boards did or did not do has absolutely no relevance here. The issue at hand here is related to the performance and conduct of the current board and whether we can go forward with trust. At the moment members rightfully have reason for concern, and until the board come out and actually explain the logic for a decision which conflicts with the whole concept of FSS, the concern remains entirely valid…..

[Chinatoon Bairn]

Owain Tudor Jones

[Shodwall cat]

28 minutes ago, roman_bairn said:

What previous boards did or did not do has absolutely no relevance here. The issue at hand here is related to the performance and conduct of the current board and whether we can go forward with trust. At the moment members rightfully have reason for concern, and until the board come out and actually explain the logic for a decision which conflicts with the whole concept of FSS, the concern remains entirely valid…..

Questions need to be asked so that the proper facts can be ascertained of course they do but some are far too eager to criticise  before this info has even been shared. People stating that fss is simply handing over money to the club in exchange for nothing. Well according to the poster above who has resigned from the FSS board that simply isn't the case and no decision has been made.  My concern all along has been that the two patrons reps rule the roost on how the club is run with little time given to other points of view.  The FSS rep/reps can't just be seen as a cardboard cutout that simply goes along with everything the patron's reps want to do but the recent occurrences have done nothing to persuade me that that isn't the case unfortunately. However, so far I would say  the bod have done an adequate job compared to previous incumbents  but more info is certainly required on the current situation from both the FSS and the bod. I certainly won't be withdrawing my membership though without knowing the full facts of the current setup.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Shodwall cat said:

Questions need to be asked so that the proper facts can be ascertained of course they do but some are far too eager to criticise  before this info has even been shared. People stating that fss is simply handing over money to the club in exchange for nothing. Well according to the poster above who has resigned from the FSS board that simply isn't the case and no decision has been made.  My concern all along has been that the two patrons reps rule the roost on how the club is run with little time given to other points of view.  The FSS rep/reps can't just be seen as a cardboard cutout that simply goes along with everything the patron's reps want to do but the recent occurrences have done nothing to persuade me that that isn't the case unfortunately. However, so far I would say  the bod have done an adequate job compared to previous incumbents  but more info is certainly required on the current situation from both the FSS and the bod. I certainly won't be withdrawing my membership though without knowing the full facts of the current setup.

Agree with most of the sentiment but just to ratify, the issue is the decision to not sell any more existing shares to the FSS and the FSS accepting this without consulting members first. The other issue that KJLK talks about is once the shares are all bought what then happens to future money. 

[Grangemouth Bairn]

Just a wee reminder to us all. This week has been a good week for us on the pitch so let’s enjoy that before we get involved in a few days mud slinging on here.

A good result on Saturday and things will look even rosier.

 

[Shodwall cat]

2 minutes ago, Van_damage said:

Agree with most of the sentiment but just to ratify, the issue is the decision to not sell any more existing shares to the FSS and the FSS accepting this without consulting members first. The other issue that KJLK talks about is once the shares are all bought what then happens to future money. 

Have they accepted this though? The meeting is to discuss what the FSS does next. Id be expecting to hear the reasons why no more shares are being made available to come from the FSS board rep. If that is not accepted by the members I would think that he will be sent back to the bod where he can make them fully aware of that . The club relies on the FSS investment to meet it's budget requirements so can't remain completely inflexible to the FSS members wishes .

[LatapyBairn.]

32 minutes ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

Just a wee reminder to us all. This week has been a good week for us on the pitch so let’s enjoy that before we get involved in a few days mud slinging on here.

A good result on Saturday and things will look even rosier.

 

Exactly! A lot of positives on the playing front which is by far and away what football fans want most, really wish some could enjoy these small highlights more and hopefully we can build on that win. Most of our new players all looking like upgrades on last year as well…... Also, for what it’s worth when the FSS do reach the 25% (and they will one way or another) I’ve always been more than happy for my money each month to basically be a glorified donation and did presume that would be the case. I’ve never really expected anything material in return for the membership other than knowing it was helping support the club but regardless of that I don’t think the FSS committee should be taking these unilateral decisions on our behalf without consulting the wider membership via a vote. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by LatapyBairn.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Shodwall cat said:

I thought there was a planned meeting to decide on the way ahead for fss. If that's the case then surely no decision has been made as of yet.  I was always of the opinion that once the FSS had arrived at it's 25 percent then the money would be used for investment in various things to be decided between the members. Surely the 3 legged stool wouldn't work if one leg had far more shares than the other two anyway.I would suggest that if you are a member then you go to the up coming meeting and find out what's happening before spitting the dummy . Anyway I suppose after a good result on Saturday some folk had to have something to moan about.

You really need to drop this line of demeaning chat. What you thought, and what is happening are two different things. FSS has already been refused a purchase of more shares which keeps them unable to realistically “keep the Wolf from the door”. Your “something to moan about” comment is derisory in the extreme.

Whether you like it or not, this is a critical situation. You trying to demean it, and those concerned by it is an extremely foolish thing to do.

Donate money for zero influence…….that gets you an FF. Subscribe to buy into a collective protection for the club….that gets you an FSS.

Take your pick.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Duncan Freemason

[MSG GTF!]

Rory Boulding

[Shodwall cat]

12 minutes ago, Duncan Freemason said:

You really need to drop this line of demeaning chat. What you thought, and what is happening are two different things. FSS has already been refused a purchase of more shares which keeps them unable to realistically “keep the Wolf from the door”. Your “something to moan about” comment is derisory in the extreme.

Whether you like it or not, this is a critical situation. You trying to demean it, and those concerned by it is an extremely foolish thing to do.

Donate money for zero influence…….that gets you an FF. Subscribe to buy into a collective protection for the club….that gets you an FSS.

Take your pick.

Okay so can you please fill me in on the facts as they stand. Not heresay and not assumption just simply the facts. 

What reason have the bod including an fss rep given the FSS for not issuing more shares? 

What are the options been put forward by the FSS for future payment terms including the one mentioned by Kevin James left knee above. 

If fss members decide that none of these options are viable can we not simply just withhold the cash injection which surely gives the FSS a strong amount of leverage.

Once I am aware of all this info I can then make an educated decision on what is happening .

[Shodwall cat]

30 minutes ago, LatapyBairn. said:

Exactly! A lot of positives on the playing front which is by far and away what football fans want most, really wish some could enjoy these small highlights more and hopefully we can build on that win. Most of our new players all looking like upgrades on last year as well…... For what it’s worth also when the FSS do reach the 25% (and they will one way or another) I’ve always been more than happy for my money each month to basically be a glorified donation and presumed that would be the case. I’ve never really expected anything material in return for the membership other than knowing it was helping support the club but regardless of that I don’t think the FSS committee should be making unilateral decisions like that without consulting the wider membership via a vote. 

Took my boy to the junior bairns training day at the stadium today. Once again a fantastic day organised by Sarah and her team. Great to see the pitch full of youngsters sporting the navy blue.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Shodwall cat said:

Okay so can you please fill me in on the facts as they stand. Not heresay and not assumption just simply the facts. 

What reason have the bod including an fss rep given the FSS for not issuing more shares? 

What are the options been put forward by the FSS for future payment terms including the one mentioned by Kevin James left knee above. 

If fss members decide that none of these options are viable can we not simply just withhold the cash injection which surely gives the FSS a strong amount of leverage.

Once I am aware of all this info I can then make an educated decision on what is happening .

The facts are on the FSS newsletter that started the conversation. The FSS have agreed to let the club to retain 1% of shares to be sold elsewhere whilst the FSS shareholding languishes at 24.6% and will dilute to 24.3% once all shares are bought. 

[Shodwall cat]

18 minutes ago, Van_damage said:

The facts are on the FSS newsletter that started the conversation. The FSS have agreed to let the club to retain 1% of shares to be sold elsewhere whilst the FSS shareholding languishes at 24.6% and will dilute to 24.3% once all shares are bought. 

I can't see agreed stated anywhere in the email I received. The current situation is explained to a certain extent although not fully the reasons behind it. The FSS meeting needs to discuss all the options available and not just the one the board want them to accept. It's up to the committee to explain the reasons the bod gave given why no more shares are being released and the options there are to get more shares including standing up to the bod if their reasons aren't acceptable to fss members. I'd be far more concerned if there was no meeting and the FSS committee were just ploughing on regardless. It's important though that as many fss members attend .

Edited August 7, 2023 by Shodwall cat

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Duncan Freemason said:

You really need to drop this line of demeaning chat. What you thought, and what is happening are two different things. FSS has already been refused a purchase of more shares which keeps them unable to realistically “keep the Wolf from the door”. Your “something to moan about” comment is derisory in the extreme.

Whether you like it or not, this is a critical situation. You trying to demean it, and those concerned by it is an extremely foolish thing to do.

Donate money for zero influence…….that gets you an FF. Subscribe to buy into a collective protection for the club….that gets you an FSS.

Take your pick.

I know what you’re saying but it’s not like the two things are mutually exclusive. 

Most fans only care about what goes on the pitch and will only care what goes on off when the sh*t really hits the fan however the governance of the club has a direct impact on what happens on the pitch. Some of us take as much interest in that as the football side of things. As it is, the new board have done some brilliant work since coming on board but it doesn’t mean I have to agree with everything they do. 

The FSS is the largest democratic shareholder in the club and has just been denied a block vote on behalf of its 720 shareholders/members so that key protection the FSS sold to us isn’t there just yet. The FSS was sold heavily on this proviso and it’s a key principle of fan ownership. Not only that but these principles were a key component to securing the government loan. 

The FSS is also a key financer to the club and if not for the £425k or so it has provided the last year, we might possibly not have a club to support.

Is it really worth potentially harming the FSS membership by removing the very basis it was sold to us and as written in its own constitution? I’m not keen to allow the club or FSS to decide that on behalf of members. That’s not what I signed up for.

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Van_damage