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yoda

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Okay, I just watched it on iPlayer having missed the start earlier.

Outside of the box thinking, but I wonder if the child is, in fact, River Song. Would make her relationship with the Doctor more than a bit odd but...

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Okay, I just watched it on iPlayer having missed the start earlier.

Outside of the box thinking, but I wonder if the child is, in fact, River Song. Would make her relationship with the Doctor more than a bit odd but...

I think something similar.

I think the child is River Song and regenerates into a younger version of her current form. The Silence have the forgetting hypnosis thing on her so when she finishes regenerating, she doesnt know where she is, how she gets there or whats happened. At that point the Doctor appears, he would have felt the regeneration and as River says he "falls out the sky and tells her everything about her". Which she needs because she can't remember anything.

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I think something similar.

I think the child is River Song and regenerates into a younger version of her current form. The Silence have the forgetting hypnosis thing on her so when she finishes regenerating, she doesnt know where she is, how she gets there or whats happened. At that point the Doctor appears, he would have felt the regeneration and as River says he "falls out the sky and tells her everything about her". Which she needs because she can't remember anything.

That could make a lot of sense. Per my above post I thought for a minute that the child was The Doctor's but having snooped around Digital Spy others are reading it as it being Rory's but the TARDIS affecting its behaviour. This would tie in a little bit with the conversation Song and Rory had in the last episode when she says that the day worse than death was when "she first met the Doctor and he already knew everything about her". It's possible that in order not to wreck her time-line, the Doctor actually had to orchestrate her entire life in quasi-reverse order. This would be the advent of the blue book with the spoilers!

What this doesn't explain yet, is three things:

1. The death of the Doctor at the very start of the episode. Who was in the suit then and was this really his death? Didn't River Song mention at one point in the first meeting the two had that it must have been "at least two regenerations" younger?

2. If River is a Timelord (or even a quasi-Time-Lord) aren't TLs suppose to be able to tell who each other is even if they've regenerated etc? Surely the Tenant Doctor would have had her figured straight away. It's not like there's any evidence of a fob-watch kicking about.

3. How did River know to shoot that Silence creature when she wasn't looking at it? She says something like "I hope my old man didn't notice that". I can't remember from the two episodes, but was the Doctor ever seen "forgetting" the Silence? Do their (if you like) 'telepathic' abilities only work on humans?

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The |Doctor is still destined to die which made it odd that nobody mentioned it after they had defeated the Silence.

Where exactly did the Dwarf star alloy and the Lodger Tardis come from as we are told that the silence have no technology of their own.

Massive questions to answer in the series - Amy and the baby, the death of the Doctor, the identity of the astronaut in 2011 and the regeneration at the end (which was a supreme WTF moment)

AND FRANCES BARBER AS THE EYEPATCH WOMAN, I guess we'll be seeing her again soon.

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that was singularly the moff's best episode to date. its also an episode that wouldn't have happened under RTD or the 10th doctor.

it is an episode herein known as 'the moff's utter mindfuck'

I'm fairly sure River is the kid. I'm fairly sure Amy is the mother. I'm fairly sure its the tardis what causes the regen's. and we've known for some time river is in jail for killing the doctor. so its probably the adult river in the suit. but time, can be rewritten....

'did my old man' does this refer to him being old, or being her husband and I also liked the seed moff planted with 'what kind of doctor are you...' :-)

and also. before XBL clatter in here and goes, 'you're all niche lovers you are. its dying, DYING I tells you!' can I just say. that was not just niche, it was fucking brilliant.

Edited by theentomologist
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Well that was quality.

Don't think anyone mentioned the Amy saying she's pregnant, then not, then not even the TARDIS can say if she is or not.

Did the TARDIS not confirm that she was pregnant?

Complete mind-f**k of an episode - well opening to the new series - but it was fantastic viewing. Matt Smith pisses on both Tennant and Ecclestone from a great height.

Edited by yoda
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Did the TARDIS not confirm that she was pregnant?

Complete mind-f**k of an episode - well opening to the new series - but it was fantastic viewing. Matt Smith pisses on both Tennant and Ecclestone from a great height.

It flicked between "pregnant" and "not pregnant"

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We DONT know that River kills the Doctor - thats an assumption and knowing Moffats mindfucks I'd be shocked if its that simple.

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It flicked between "pregnant" and "not pregnant"

to me, the tardis couldn't confirm either way, but must admit it's a total headbender of a start to the series

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That could make a lot of sense. Per my above post I thought for a minute that the child was The Doctor's but having snooped around Digital Spy others are reading it as it being Rory's but the TARDIS affecting its behaviour. This would tie in a little bit with the conversation Song and Rory had in the last episode when she says that the day worse than death was when "she first met the Doctor and he already knew everything about her". It's possible that in order not to wreck her time-line, the Doctor actually had to orchestrate her entire life in quasi-reverse order. This would be the advent of the blue book with the spoilers!

What this doesn't explain yet, is three things:

1. The death of the Doctor at the very start of the episode. Who was in the suit then and was this really his death? Didn't River Song mention at one point in the first meeting the two had that it must have been "at least two regenerations" younger?

2. If River is a Timelord (or even a quasi-Time-Lord) aren't TLs suppose to be able to tell who each other is even if they've regenerated etc? Surely the Tenant Doctor would have had her figured straight away. It's not like there's any evidence of a fob-watch kicking about.

3. How did River know to shoot that Silence creature when she wasn't looking at it? She says something like "I hope my old man didn't notice that". I can't remember from the two episodes, but was the Doctor ever seen "forgetting" the Silence? Do their (if you like) 'telepathic' abilities only work on humans?

I think it would affect the DR as he was the one who put the recorder things in their hands,maybe for him to remember as well?

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and also. before XBL clatter in here and goes, 'you're all niche lovers you are. its dying, DYING I tells you!' can I just say. that was not just niche, it was fucking brilliant.

You're the one who agreed it was niche! For the record, I enjoyed it and thought it was an excellent episode, which isn't surprising as I'm a massive fan of Moffat's writing, but it doesn't change my overall view.

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Well I for one thought that the episode yesterday and the entire last series was brilliant. It's more Who than it's been since they got it back up and running.

It's not supposed to be all high action and drama. It's supposed to be deceptively subtle. That's what they didn't quite get right particularly in the latter Tennant stuff.

David Tennant is a great actor but was completely wrong for Dr Who. yes, he was popular but there was no edginess to his Doctor whatsoever, just a guy playing it for laughs with a stupid accent to boot. Matt Smith is the best Doctor since Tom Baker and that's no lie.

Yes to both of those. To be fair to Tennant, he wasn't a bad doctor, and the limitations of it may have been down to all the sloppy mush in the writing. Nonetheless, Smith is a much better and more doctory doctor. I'd go further and say he's the best since Troughton.

I take xbl's point that I'm not the target audience, and if the programme is getting it right for thirtysomething geeks like me that isn't necessarily a good thing. But those with kids tell me that double episode there has played very well with them too. And quite right too 'cause it was a belter, well-paced, well filmed, some clever ideas, some credit to the viewer's intelligence to fill in the gaps, some other mysteries left to be resolve later in the series. And the central idea was a simple but clever one, and importantly it contained the clues to its own solution, no deus ex machina necessary.

Top work all round.

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Well that was quality.

Don't think anyone mentioned the Amy saying she's pregnant, then not, then not even the TARDIS can say if she is or not.

time can be rewritten. it just hasn't been fully rewritten so apparently you can be a 'little bit' pregnant.

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You're the one who agreed it was niche! For the record, I enjoyed it and thought it was an excellent episode, which isn't surprising as I'm a massive fan of Moffat's writing, but it doesn't change my overall view.

oh it is niche. its also brilliant. and not dying.

oh and can we name another time the dr has had a beard?

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Oh and can we name another time the dr has had a beard?

Tom Baker in The Leisure Hive!!! :ph34r:

leisurehive1.jpg

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Yes to both of those. To be fair to Tennant, he wasn't a bad doctor, and the limitations of it may have been down to all the sloppy mush in the writing. Nonetheless, Smith is a much better and more doctory doctor. I'd go further and say he's the best since Troughton.

I take xbl's point that I'm not the target audience, and if the programme is getting it right for thirtysomething geeks like me that isn't necessarily a good thing. But those with kids tell me that double episode there has played very well with them too. And quite right too 'cause it was a belter, well-paced, well filmed, some clever ideas, some credit to the viewer's intelligence to fill in the gaps, some other mysteries left to be resolve later in the series. And the central idea was a simple but clever one, and importantly it contained the clues to its own solution, no deus ex machina necessary.

Top work all round.

My son is 7 and he is absolutely LOVING this series so far. And he pretty much grasps what is going on too. He has watched the first episode daily since last weekend and knows it backwards now and he will do the same with episode 2. There are LOADS of kids massively in to Dr Who and they do "get it" and will continue to grow with the show.

It is high quality sci fi and Matt Smith is absolutely brilliant. I thought he was great last series and he is proving even better this time.

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Best thing about RTD fucking off is no ham-fisted crowbarring in of pop culture/contemporary references that instantly date the show and make it totally unwatchable. No fart jokes. An end to everything being lit with bright neon, no fucking Billy Piper and her extended family, and no more of "Hallo I'm the Doctah, a know it all space arse. I'll solve all your problems with a hypocritical speech about genocide and then hit this big button that resets everything to the start of the episode, allonssyyyyy!"

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My son is 7 and he is absolutely LOVING this series so far. And he pretty much grasps what is going on too. He has watched the first episode daily since last weekend and knows it backwards now and he will do the same with episode 2. There are LOADS of kids massively in to Dr Who and they do "get it" and will continue to grow with the show.

It is high quality sci fi and Matt Smith is absolutely brilliant. I thought he was great last series and he is proving even better this time.

I hope so, I do like it, but sadly, I have my doubts long term. I will disagree with you about Matt Smith though, he's no David Tennant.

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Final rating for TIA - 8.86 million, aye a niche show.

A 2.4 million timeshift, not bad for a dying product.

And a better season opening rating than Tennant for Smith and Jones (his second series).

Smith kicks the mockney emo right in the bollocks.

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