Doctor Who

[EdgarusQPFC]

300 years of endless waves of every kind of monster the Galaxy has to offer with nothing to defend yourself with except a laser pointer, seems a bit much

[Ad Lib]

I'm thinking the doctor would have been trying to trick them all. Every time he said he could regenerate I think he was goading them to try, to attempt to kill him.

Precisely.

[DA Baracus]

300 years of endless waves of every kind of monster the Galaxy has to offer with nothing to defend yourself with except a laser pointer, seems a bit much

On the topic of the sonic screwdriver, is anyone else utterly sick of it? It seems that it can do loads of things. I think it gives the writers license to be lazy. If they're ever stuck with something then it's sonic screwdriver to the rescue. Get it to f**k I say.

[~~~]

 

 

On the topic of the sonic screwdriver, is anyone else utterly sick of it? It seems that it can do loads of things. I think it gives the writers license to be lazy. If they're ever stuck with something then it's sonic screwdriver to the rescue. Get it to f**k I say.

They got rid of it during Peter Davison time for that reason, so the writers couldn't be lazy

Doubt they'll get rid of it again through, the BBC must make a fortune on selling replicas

[Yoss]

Having just watched it a 2nd time on the I Player, I'm not QUITE as angry as I was when it finished last night. I still think it was very confusing in places and Moffat could have done a far better job, but a few questions I had got answered on second viewing.

Agreed there, I thought it worked much better on second viewing. Still not great - the specials are never the best - but if you can overlook the Pond cameo it wasn't too bad in the end.

Smith has been great, overall, shame he's not staying longer but I'm looking forward to seeing Capaldi nonetheless. As for Moffat, he's been very good for the programme as well, despite some missteps and some big disappointments, but I'm thinking he's probably done his bit now and it's about time to let someone else have a go.

[Ludo*1]

I have a hunch it'll be Mark Gatiss that eventually takes the reigns.

This is a local Doctor for local people.

[MangoBroccoli]

 

Yeah all the Doctors act differently upon regeneration, but there was instance before when the Time Lords took away the Doctors knowledge of flying the Tardis, so maybe its just a subtle nod at the past of the show? 

In the Tenth's first scene (the 2005 children in need episode) he mentions that the "regeneration is going wrong" so maybe that's why he spends all day in bed whereas Eleven hopped straight out of a burning TARDIS and only needed fish fingers and custard before taking on the crack in the wall.

I've had this debate with my brother and my theory is that the Nine-Ten regen was the worst because he consumed the Time Vortex which is presumably the most powerful substance in this (or indeed any) universe.

As for Capaldi's first line, I thought it was just part of the tradition where new Doctors investigate a random body part. The "new teeth" one was my favourite.

[Yoss]

Come on Enrico this is amateur hour from you.

It wasn't The Doctor that was shot by the Astronaut (who is, remember, River). It was that machine thing that was made to look like him which he was inside. It was an elaborate hoax by him and quite deliberate.

Everything else can be explained by the very simple maxim of "Rule 1".

I agree that all of that serves as perfectly adequate retrospective explanation, and that there's no inconsistencies involved. But the fact that it's possible to explain it all away in hindsight is not the same as to say those explanations were known and intended at the time. I highly doubt they'd have done things the way they did earlier on if they'd always known and intended that Smith's incarnation would be the 13th.

(I'm glad they've done it this way, though. Having introduced Hurt's incarnation, that would have made Capaldi number 13, and could have led to his whole tenure being dominated or overshadowed by what was going to happen at the end of it. The thing with Tennant's hand gave them a handy little cheat to take that out the equation, so Capaldi can just get on with being a doctor.)

I'm curious to know whether the crack was always intended to be the Timelords, though.

[captainkev]

In the Tenth's first scene (the 2005 children in need episode) he mentions that the "regeneration is going wrong" so maybe that's why he spends all day in bed whereas Eleven hopped straight out of a burning TARDIS and only needed fish fingers and custard before taking on the crack in the wall.

I've had this debate with my brother and my theory is that the Nine-Ten regen was the worst because he consumed the Time Vortex which is presumably the most powerful substance in this (or indeed any) universe.

As for Capaldi's first line, I thought it was just part of the tradition where new Doctors investigate a random body part. The "new teeth" one was my favourite.

It's still not as bad as his 5th-6th regenerations ultimately. That regeneration led to him trying to throttle his companion as well as pick a terrible coat and refuse to change it out of stubborness.

As for the episode itself. I liked it well enough but I absolutely hate the fact that Moffat has made Smith into the 13th Doctor essentially. He clearly wasn't intending to do this when he took over, why the hell would he have gone to all the effort of repeatedly pointing out in his first series as showrunner that Smith was Doctor number 11. Despite the fact Moffat has written two of my all -time favourite Doctor Who stories (and neither of them are Blink), this decision is always going to rankle with me and poison my view of his contribution to the series as I'm really petty that way.

But seeing as the fake Tennant regeneration is now definitely officially counted as a regeneration, while he may not have changed his body, is it possible looking back now that we could speculate that his personality was slightly altered by that regeneration? The 10th Doctor was always a bit arrogant and smug, but after Journeys End, he got even worse culminating in his massive mistake in The Waters of Mars when he decided to do whatever the hell he wanted and forget about the consequences.

That obviously wasn't what RTD intended to have happened at the time as he didn't count the series 4 regeneration as one being used up, but now Moffat has, it's an interesting idea (or not) that while the Doctor wasn't noticably physically changed by that regeneration, something in his character was altered.

Edited December 30, 2013 by captainkev

[Yoss]

As for the episode itself. I liked it well enough but I absolutely hate the fact that Moffat has made Smith into the 13th Doctor essentially. He clearly wasn't intending to do this when he took over, why the hell would he have gone to all the effort of repeatedly pointing out in his first series as showrunner that Smith was Doctor number 11.

I agree I don't think it was planned, but most of the history and lore of the show has been made up as we've gone along. The idea of regeneration itself, most obviously. I'm okay with that, by and large, as long as it stays more or less interntally consistent despite it.

Despite the fact Moffat has written two of my all -time favourite Doctor Who stories (and neither of them are Blink), this decision is always going to rankle with me and poison my view of his contribution to the series as I'm really petty that way.

Empty Child has got to be one of the two, right? I thought Blink was excellent as well, so was Eleventh Hour and The Time of Angels. Girl in the Fireplace was a bit overrated, imho, and Silence in the Library let down a little by its second part, but both were nonetheless the pick of their respective series.

Over the piece, there are a few things that rankle, and his era as showrunner hasn't been what I'd hoped. He's run out of ideas a bit, had too many balls in the air in the story arcs, and it's all generally got a bit messy. But I prefer to look at the positives - written (and then overseen) some terrific individual episodes; cast at least one, perhaps two, great doctors; and maintained the popularity of the show and secured its future.

But seeing as the fake Tennant regeneration is now definitely officially counted as a regeneration, while he may not have changed his body, is it possible looking back now that we could speculate that his personality was slightly altered by that regeneration The 10th Doctor was always a bit arrogant and smug, but after Journeys End, he got even worse culminating in his massive mistake in The Waters of Mars when he decided to do whatever the hell he wanted and forget about the consequences.

That obviously wasn't what RTD intended to have happened at the time as he didn't count the series 4 regeneration as one being used up, but now Moffat has, it's an interesting idea (or not) that while the Doctor wasn't noticably physically changed by that regeneration, something in his character was altered.

Interesting idea, and a very plausible one. If I ever get round to watching those episodes again I'll see how it fits.

[Yoss]

Anyhow, I've just been rewatching The Mind Robber and The Invasion over the past couple of days, and loving them. I know those stories were unrepresentatively good, and there was a lot of right old dross in the original series, but at its best it was better than the modern version. Sorry, I know it can seem a bit arsey and snobbish to say that, but there it is.

(ETA: Troughton was peerless.)

Edited December 30, 2013 by Yoss

[NotThePars]

Been rewatching Smith's first series after taking in Tennant's final episodes and it's probably my favourite series since the reboot. Manages to create a coherent plot across the entire series without being as right-on as Davies and Tennant. It's also consistently funny and Smith really does come across like an alien rather than a wacky human. I've no doubt that Tennant is a better actor than Smith but I was always more convinced by Smith in the role than Tennant. It's just a shame that Smith had to suffer some pretty awful writing in general from Moffat while Tennant only had to contend with a lot of cheese from Davies.

[Kilbowie's Finest]

Found Tennant a bit shouty and smug at times but the run that consisted of Human Nature , The Family of Blood , Blink and Utopia is in my opinion the best run of quality stories the rebooted series has had - in saying that I still prefer Eccleston to both Smith and Tennant

Eccleston's "Everybody lives Rose " speech in The Doctor Dances is still for me the best scene ever in NuWho - although The Master/Professor Yana reveal in Utopia runs it a close second

[Kilbowie's Finest]

Anyhow, I've just been rewatching The Mind Robber and The Invasion over the past couple of days, and loving them. I know those stories were unrepresentatively good, and there was a lot of right old dross in the original series, but at its best it was better than the modern version. Sorry, I know it can seem a bit arsey and snobbish to say that, but there it is.

(ETA: Troughton was peerless.)

Got Terror of the Zygons as part of my Christmas and watched it earlier - thoroughly enjoyable but I had forgotten just how crap Harry Sullivan was

[MangoBroccoli]

Found Tennant a bit shouty and smug at times but the run that consisted of Human Nature , The Family of Blood , Blink and Utopia is in my opinion the best run of quality stories the rebooted series has had - in saying that I still prefer Eccleston to both Smith and Tennant

Eccleston's "Everybody lives Rose " speech in The Doctor Dances is still for me the best scene ever in NuWho - although The Master/Professor Yana reveal in Utopia runs it a close second

I was totally blind sighted when the Daleks came out of the sphere. Probably my all out favourite part since I actually jumped a bit.

Have to say I loved Eccleston and was genuinely disappointed he didn't make an appearance in the 50th. Also, recently Smith has been my favourite.

Having said that, I just feel Tennant was the definitive Doctor.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

That Christmas day episode has to be one of the most incoherent pieces of pretentious shite I have ever seen in the history of DW.

Edited December 30, 2013 by DeeTillEhDeh

[Confidemus]

Have to say I loved Eccleston and was genuinely disappointed he didn't make an appearance in the 50th.

Eccleston doesn't have anything to do with Who since he jacked it in, and I've lost a bit of respect for him for that reason. When you take on the role, surely you must be aware of what it entails?

For that reason, I'll always prefer Smith and Tennent to Eccleston.

[Ludo*1]

Confidemus, on 31 Dec 2013 - 08:06, said:

Eccleston doesn't have anything to do with Who since he jacked it in, and I've lost a bit of respect for him for that reason. When you take on the role, surely you must be aware of what it entails?

For that reason, I'll always prefer Smith and Tennent to Eccleston.

He said there was a lot of backstabbing and unwelcome politics that went along with the role. No matter how good a role is, if you don't like the people, then it's fair enough I suppose. Eccleston's series was the one I found most enjoyable, even if looking back it contained a lot of cheese! Tennent's series has the most potential to be watched again and again such is the quality, whereas I stopped watching Smith after his first series. I think the series took a sharp downturn for me at least, when Billie Piper left and Catherine Tate/Martha were brought in.

[Sergeant Wilson]

I always hated K9.

[Adrian Madaschi]

I always hated K9.

he was a fud to be fair