Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Fasda]

Another Rangers boycott the SPL clubs thread on RangersMedia.

Get ready for the Rangers backlash!!

Imagine - the people I want to see the least in my life ever again are planning to boycott games at my home ground. Dream ticket! Do you think the smelltic might join them..... solidarity, voting rights, joint commercial interests etc? One can dream.

[Araminta Moonbeam QC]

Looks like the big L announcement might be coming soon times. Martin Williams at Herald on Twitter saying Admins saying CVA not likely to be accepted and 'funding issues' due to end of season (so Hughie's posse not stumped up any cash then?) mean CVA will be 'difficult'.

[Granny Danger]

The money required to make Rangers a contender for regular Champions League participation is, well, whatever it takes to get a newco formed and up and running. It also buys a ticket to a share in regular trophies that will keep tens of thousands of people enjoying the "glory".

I would agree with that if we were still getting two CL spots, however I think it is down to one after this season. We've alaways known the OF only need to spend big bucks to try to beat each other, not the other SPL clubs. But if I am right about only one CL place then Rangers would have to have a strong enough squad to beat Celtic regularly and I can't see that happening.

[Colin M]

That's as maybe - but I still don't see Green being here for the time it would take to even get Rangers up to Champions League participation and trousering regular trophies again. All I can see is that he must have his eye on a fast buck somehow. Call me cynical (just don't call me Shirley). As I said, I could understand the Paul Murray involvement, but this? I understand that it appears Rangers are available on the cheap - but that is smoke and mirrors. There's a massive amount of financial uncertainty behind the seemingly cheap and cheerful down payment.

Whyte's down payment was a quid. He engineered a dodgy Ticketus deal to get rid of the Lloyds 18 million, then I'm sure his plan was also to perform some sort of asset-stripping scam, set himself up as preferred creditor, the guy with the keys to Murray Park and the assets... something. I think his cunning plan has fallen down because he seriously under-estimated the glare of publicity, and the microscope that Rangers have been put under. Like Minty before him, he simply wants rid.

I can only see Green being cut from the same cloth as Whyte. In fact, he might not even get as far as being Whyte MkII. More like Soccerball Bill MkII. Does anyone really believe he has been sitting looking at Rangers and is putting thoughts of the BTC and EBTs, European bans and SFA/SPL sanctions out of his mind, because he sees glory and European success ahead?

I don't buy it. Does anyone?

A lot of guys who get involved in football are driven mainly by their egos. What I don't see, is where the money is to be made this time round. I understood it with Whyte - he paid a quid and Ticketus paid the rest to get the club, and his plan was/is to get away with a profit. He probably did underestimate the situation - or maybe he genuinely doesn't give a f**k.

By paying 8.5 million (or whatever they actually pay) this consortium ARE making an investment. I don't think there's a quick return to be made here - unless they are trying to dupe the administrators and would plan to sell off the assets. I'm not even sure that they could make money that way!

[pozbaird]

A lot of guys who get involved in football are driven mainly by their egos. What I don't see, is where the money is to be made this time round. I understood it with Whyte - he paid a quid and Ticketus paid the rest to get the club, and his plan was/is to get away with a profit. He probably did underestimate the situation - or maybe he genuinely doesn't give a f**k.

By paying 8.5 million (or whatever they actually pay) this consortium ARE making an investment. I don't think there's a quick return to be made here - unless they are trying to dupe the administrators and would plan to sell off the assets. I'm not even sure that they could make money that way!

No, I don't get Green's angle either - but he must have one. This leads me to believe there won't be any 8.5 million bid, and he's just another media whore looking to get his fizzog in the public eye.

We'll see soon enough.

[LiamDFC]

"we all live in an Orange submarine,

a cheating submarine,

a cheating submarine"

"We all live in a Whyte submarine

a dodging submarine,

a dodging submarine"

"We all live in a Blue Knight submarine,

a denial submarine,

a denial submarine"

"We all live in a Green submarine,

a sinking submarine,

a sinking submarine"

Sorry, poor first post.

.............. I'll get me coat.

Welcome aboard, my good man!

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

As for Ticketus and HMRC getting "nothing", if Rangers are forcibly liquidated via court order, the creditors will get at least 60p in the £1 at worse - but that is far better than the 4p to 5p being touted by every Rangers suitor up to and including you.

Jog on!

No. Rangers don't have assets to pay out that much money. With a debt on the order of £100M when everything is added up, you think there is scope to get £60M out of Rangers? The administrator are putting that figure closer to £4M according to some journalists AND Craig Whyte, the catering company and D&P get first dibs on any cash raised. So Green is right that HMRC and Ticketus will get nothing in a liquidation event.

If Rangers are worth £60M why are offer in the region of £10M being accepted by administrators?

[Fasda]

No, I don't get Green's angle either - but he must have one. This leads me to believe there won't be any 8.5 million bid, and he's just another media whore looking to get his fizzog in the public eye.

We'll see soon enough.

I've been involved in a few acquisitions, MBO's etc and I see it like this

He's a chancer with an eye for the main chance. He sees an opportunity to get into a potential Eoro qualifier and, even if it takes a few years, he can sell on or break up for a return. He sees the chance and has made his play, he's speculating that if everything else goes his way he can raise the funds from backers who will want a return in the short term (2-4 years). Fair enough. I give it a week at most but if it does come off it will be a hilarious journey.

Also... Once again this all about where the gers might be next season, CVa's (aye, right!), playing fitba, transfer chests, boycotts and all that but ignoring the truck coming roon' the corner, taxes and dual contracts. Tick, tock....

[Calidad]

More rearranging of deck chairs on the good ship Titanic. Everyone and their dug knows that Rangers are not going to get a CVA. The appeal will be chucked out ( the report that came out last week made that pretty clear to me). The only way back for Rangers is the NewCo. I expect a the endless articles about the nuclear destruction of Scottish football if they are not allowed back in to the SPL, to be cranked out with the usual hysterical desperation. Any reasoned, thought out arguments that might counter this narrative will be drowned out.

I think the SPL will be fine without Rangers for a wee while. Clubs will spend a wee bit less, Journalists may discover whole new clubs to write 500 words of why the strikers change of colour of boots is social political dig at their nearest rivals. Instead of lamb we night have succulent smoke sausage suppers.

[WaffenThinMint]

No. Rangers don't have assets to pay out that much money. With a debt on the order of £100M when everything is added up, you think there is scope to get £60M out of Rangers? The administrator are putting that figure closer to £4M according to some journalists AND Craig Whyte, the catering company and D&P get first dibs on any cash raised. So Green is right that HMRC and Ticketus will get nothing in a liquidation event.

If Rangers are worth £60M why are offer in the region of £10M being accepted by administrators?

I'm talking about as things stand right now with the first team players still on the books (and which it has to be remembered much of the current suitors bids are centred on keeping). Come the reversion back to the original contracts and the players flying out of the door for nothing, different story. But at that point it will be academic anyway as Rangers will fold with every suitor backing out at that point as impossible to save.

[DeeGeeOneHamer]

St Johnstone should say a big thank you to D&P for saving their ground and City from a 'Manchester 2008' style wrecking spree yesterday. That bit of civic duty needs to be acknowledged.

Now the season is over here comes the liquidation.

Green in the Scotsman giving it the big'un to HMRC about 'they have a duty to the tax payer, who will want to see some sort of return'. Well as one of said tax payers, I'll forgo the 5p in the £ being offered and chance liquidation; then sit back as every other professional sports club in the UK jams up HMRC's mail room with cheques to pay the outstanding PAYE and VAT.

[qpsnapper]

Another Rangers boycott the SPL clubs thread on RangersMedia.

Get ready for the Rangers backlash!!

From that:

We don't necessarily have to "f**k up" the SPL either. If we did this boycott for even 1 year, other clubs would come abegging, and THEN we lay down the terms. Until now it's all been about how everyone can f**k over the Rangers. Now, it's going to be about how the Rangers can f**k over everyone else.

Em, isn't that what you've been doing for the last decade with your tax dodging EBT's?

[Cobardon]

More rearranging of deck chairs on the good ship Titanic. Everyone and their dug knows that Rangers are not going to get a CVA. The appeal will be chucked out ( the report that came out last week made that pretty clear to me). The only way back for Rangers is the NewCo. I expect a the endless articles about the nuclear destruction of Scottish football if they are not allowed back in to the SPL, to be cranked out with the usual hysterical desperation. Any reasoned, thought out arguments that might counter this narrative will be drowned out.

I think the SPL will be fine without Rangers for a wee while. Clubs will spend a wee bit less, Journalists may discover whole new clubs to write 500 words of why the strikers change of colour of boots is social political dig at their nearest rivals. Instead of lamb we night have succulent smoke sausage suppers.

Here's a thing that the spokesmen for clubs and their apologists have overlooked/ignored/forgotten (delete as applicable). Clubs have had to take hits like Rangers leaving would be before and survived: the Taylor report and move to all-seaters cost every SPL (or equivalent as was) millions, only some of which was covered by grants. Yet, as they had to, they absorbed these costs and carried on. They lived, despite the problems this threw up (the costs of building, empty stands for a period while construction was ongoing, fans put off by lack of atmosphere). These were far, far bigger problems for the clubs than a drop of c.£500k a season (which is worst case scenario anyway, surely, and assumes no club or TV deal as replacement for those lost), but they did it, and all came out of the other side.

This time, they have a smaller problem that sporting integrity demands they fix and which, like the all-seating grounds, will possibly improve their lot long term...grit your teeth and stop moaning, chairmen, and get on with it.

[Hedgecutter]

I didn't have today for Green to run for the hills. I give it the same amount of time it took Soccerball Bill. A week - ten days. Max.

Forgive me for struggling to keep upn with events, but if Green has the 'keys to Ibrox' in a legally binding contract, does he still have the option to say f**k this, I want a refund like I could do in the shops within two weeks with a reciept? Has he just gone one step further than Miller who was just browsing the shop rather than actually buying anything?

[T_S_A_R]

I'm talking about as things stand right now with the first team players still on the books (and which it has to be remembered much of the current suitors bids are centred on keeping). Come the reversion back to the original contracts and the players flying out of the door for nothing, different story. But at that point it will be academic anyway as Rangers will fold with every suitor backing out at that point as impossible to save.

the players have no value in the event of a liquidation.

[Silvio Tattiescone]

From the BBC football rumours page -

Green has vowed to raise £1bn for Rangers and will accept investment from anyone so long as the cash is clean.

Expect to see a strikeforce of Messi & Balotelli next season then?

[thelegendthatis]

to be fair that's like saying "do you want to buy the Marina with the broken head gasket, or the Lada that's a Category A write off, and try and drive away from the garage?"

what's in it for Green is £ from the sale of playing and real estate assets, and possibly selling the rights to the Rangers "brand" to whichever of the three new factional FC United of Rangers emerge from the debris.

His statement in the paper is riddled with qualifications, loopholes and get outs. If he is interested in staying at all, it will be liquidation & newco that he's aiming at with the hope of favourable treatment from the SPL. His business history and experience of companies in receivership tells you little else. He's only going to hang around for as long as there is money to be made for him and his shadowy "investors" (assuming they actually exist and have money- his reluctance to name names triggers my cynical gland).

He'll spend awhile looking at the books and seeing if there is some easy money to be made. If there isn't, he'll walk away citing SFA sanctions / fan hostility/ "I didn't realise how bad it was" type excuses, leaving H&D to plug the industrial blender into the wall. Everyone knows already that the prospect of Rangers agreeing a CVA in early June, is similar to the prospects of a lone Fokker triplane, in a dogfight with a squadron of Eurofighters.

My suspicion is that Green will have walked away by the end of the month for one of these reasons. And, after a final self-publicising spasm of "protest" from Oddball Kennedy and P. Murray, some posthoc "I knew Green was a wrong'un all along" from Traynor, an on-air meltdown at the injustice of it all from Chic, the club will be gone.

There will be a Rangers newco next season but most likely in SFL 3 having gone through the foreshortened application process in the summer. Liquidation means very little room for manoeuvre for the authorities and those SPL clubs who haven't bothered making a budget for the scenario where Rangers don;t exist have only themselves to blame if they hit financial turbulence. It's not like they haven't had fair warning.

A good reading of the 'exciting opportunity' for Mr Green and Rangers.

However I would await the result of the appeal on Wednesday from the SFA. I think they will not just kick their shins but pin them against the wall.

That then takes us to their application to join Division 3. Given their cheating and thieving pedigree they may be accepted but there must be conditions demanding honesty and transparency. It cannot be taken for granted based on their history or the individuals still circling around.

Ranger remind me of the bit in Slumdog millionaire. The lad goes into the bog which like Ibrox looks ok from the outside, but as Miller found and no doubt Green will too, the reality is a pile of shit that you do not want to go near

Can one of you clever guys give the wee lad a photograph of Ally to take with him as he jumps?

[PeeTeeJag]

Notice Rno Gattuso has made a "come and get me plea" of sorts to Rangers, who will no doubt be linked with a "sensational swoop".

I Smell Shite

From footballnews24 - Gattuso has not played since suffering vision problems due to conflict with Alessandro Nesta, the Serie A match against Lazio, September 2011.

Some people assessing Gattuso will not really recover from that problem and Milan will not renew the contract.

He said money wasnt an issue, but then again he also said he would play for Milan for nothing.

[Sting777]

Dont know if this has been posted but interesting link to Green, Whyte and Kevin Bacon!!

http://scotslawthoug...swer/#more-1161

In Football's "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" How Close is Charles Green to Craig Whyte? An Earley Answer

In the game "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" a player has to link another actor or performer to Mr Bacon in no more than six steps. The game is not intended to show that Mr Bacon is an integral part of world cinema, but rather the interconnectedness of people in a comparatively small field.

In an idle moment this morning, I tried the same with Mr Green, the new "preferred bidder" for Rangers and Mr Whyte. I offer the following simply to show how connected the world of football finance is. Nothing I say should be seen as in any way casting doubt on the bona fides of Mr Green or indeed of Mr Whyte.

All of my company research comes via duedil.com, but if there are any errors, they will be mine.

Mr Green has been heavily involved in football and business for many years. One name which crops up a few times in connection with him is John Michael Edelson, also known as Michael Edelson (and I apologise for using Wikipedia as a source).

For example, Mr Edelson was a Director of Gillpollco (No 1) Ltd from 30^th April 1992 until 14^th January 1997. On the latter date Mr Green became a Director and Chief Executive, although only remaining in post until April 1997.

Similarly Mr Edelson became a director of Sheffield United PLC on 10^th June 1992. HE remained so until 14^th January 1997 when he stepped down. That same day, Sheffield United PLC got a new Chief Executive, Charles Green! This time he was there until leaving on 30^th June 1998.

Mr Edelson is now a director of Manchester United and described by Wikipedia as follows:-

"He is an angel investor, venture capitalist and philanthropist who has been instrumental in creating numerous cash shell companies on both AIM and PLUS. As a result of these, he was nicknamed "The Shellmeister" by Richard Rivlin in an article in the Sunday Telegraph in 1996 and the nickname has stuck to this day."

Therefore, it is not surprising he has wide business connections.

Moving forward down the time line, we see that Mr Edelson was a director of a company called Regenesis Group Ltd from 10^th March 2004 until 10^th March 2005.

He was also a director of Worthington PLC from 5^th May 2005 until 6^th July 2010.

The latter gives us his "Kevin Bacon" connection with Craig Whyte.

When Mr Edelson stepped down as director of Worthington PLC in July 2010, he was replaced by Peter Townsend, a director of Regenesis Holdings Ltd (not Regenesis Group Ltd). Regenesis Holdings owns 14% of Worthington PLC.

On 12^th August 2010, a company shown as based in Geneva acquired a 7.54% shareholding in Worthington PLC. This amounted to 890,000 shares. The Company is Liberty Capital Ltd, Route de Trelex 8, 1266, Duillier, Geneva. The contact name is Craig Whyte!

Worthington PLC has a connection too with Mr Whyte as it is an investor in the Jerome Group PLC Pension Fund. On 12^th March 2012, CQN reported that the Pension Fund was a claimant of sums held by Mr Whyte's former solicitors, Collyer Bristow, in the name of Rangers or Rangers Group. It was suggested by Worthington that the Fund was looking at lending money to Rangers and that these funds had been released by the solicitors without authority.

As a final cherry on the cake, the sole director of Regenesis Holdings Ltd is Mr Wulstan Earley. If you search this blog you will find a number of mentions of him and his brother Aidan Earley. Indeed the Earley brothers are involved with Banstead Athletic Football Club, which benefited from a £250,000 payment from Rangers prior to it entering administration!

So, in the footballing Kevin Bacon game, I start at Charles Green, move to Michael Edelson and thence arrive at Craig Whyte. If being pernickety, you would force me to add in Peter Townsend of Regenesis/Worthington as an extra step.

Bearing in mind that Mr Green has said he has only ever met Mr Whyte three times (and I hasten to say I am not doubting him when he does so), that might have been through bad luck as they move, or seem to have moved, in similar circles.

Does this mean anything negative about Mr Green? Of course not. What about his consortium of 20 people?

Until there is transparency and clarity regarding them, then no one, especially the Rangers fans, will know.

Posted by Paul McConville

[Homer Thompson]

Just occured to me that Greens 20 people have only come up with £8.5m - thats less than £500k each. Green is quoted as saying he has already spent £1m on the takeover, but none of his 20 investors can come up with even half of that.

Somethings smells fishy and Im not talking about Baldricks apple crumble.