Savage Henry Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I agree with this. If they're a new club as we all know they are, then why should we treat them like the old club? That would basically just make us as bad as the Rangers fans who refuse to believe their club has died. As far as I'm concerned, new club, fresh start. If we opposed their entry for sporting reasons (i.e. another candidate had a most sustainable plan going forwards) then fair enough, but if we don't let them in, just because they used to be Rangers, then Rangers have a legitimate cause for complaint to the authorities (whether that be UEFA, FIFA, CAS, or CoS). Sevco should be treated like any other new club. Agreed, but at the same time that necessitates the removal of all Rangers I's trophies and records. This new club - as it surely is - to have a clean slate must also have an empty history book. I'm not sure Rangers fans are prepared to accept that. Look at the reaction to Stevie Naismith for having the temerity to say "I was a Rangers player, but they died and I don't want to play for Newco." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgecutter Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 As to Mcgregor Top of the Championship lower end of the premiership at best because of attitude rather than ability. Considering a superior Craig Gordon agreed to play at mid-table at best Sunderland, I'd tend to agree with this. His occasional 'liability' moments also seem to be more frequent by the year. Still, whoever picks him up from the Rangers scrapheap will still be getting a pretty good bargain. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huistrinho Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I'm just floating an idea out here, but is it possible that Green will shift ownership of Ibrox & Murray Park to one of his other companies then put Sevco 5088 into administration/liquidation, walking away with the assets? He could then try to sell or rent them to any other wannabe Rangers outfits, or failing that could presumably attempt to develop them for housing in some way. This seems like an obvious Plan B (Plan A being readmission to the SPL). Without straight readmission there's no way in hell he's going to make a profit (it was doubtful anyway). It's probably reasonable to assume that somebody will be willing to buy/rent Ibrox from him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DXBBud Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Agreed, but at the same time that necessitates the removal of all Rangers I's trophies and records. This new club - as it surely is - to have a clean slate must also have an empty history book. I'm not sure Rangers fans are prepared to accept that. Look at the reaction to Stevie Naismith for having the temerity to say "I was a Rangers player, but they died and I don't want to play for Newco." So good he posted it twice - New York, New York!!!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Agreed, but at the same time that necessitates the removal of all Rangers I's trophies and records. This new club - as it surely is - to have a clean slate must also have an empty history book. I'm not sure Rangers fans are prepared to accept that. Look at the reaction to Stevie Naismith for having the temerity to say "I was a Rangers player, but they died and I don't want to play for Newco." Yep. It won't really change anything for Rangers fans (just like Airdrie), but if they're a new club, then they should have their records wiped. Although that said, there IS precedent for that not happening. I believe there is now actually a regulation in Italy that if a club goes bust, it can now start again one tier below where they were, with their history. I could be wrong on that though, I'm sure I remember that discussion coming up with an Italian in a pub a while back, maybe an expert could clarify (Dee man)?. Do the likes of Fiorentina and Torino have blank histories? I personally think new club, new history though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huistrinho Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Considering a superior Craig Gordon agreed to play at mid-table at best Sunderland, I'd tend to agree with this. His occasional 'liability' moments also seem to be more frequent by the year. Still, whoever picks him up from the Rangers scrapheap will still be getting a pretty good bargain. At the time I thought this was a stepping-stone move. Had it not been for inures, I'm reasonably certain he'd have secured a move to a bigger club. OT: has there ben any word on where he might be playing next season? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Apologies if this has already been discussed on some of the the previous 2000 odd pages, but has there been any hints from SPL/SFL/SFA as to which team is likely to be team 12 (assuming it's not going to be Sevco)? I find it hard to believe that everyone is waiting until July 4th before putting something in motion. I would imagine someone has devised some sort of criteria to establish which first division club should become SPL team 12 and the same for the 2nd and 1st divisions? Or is this phase likely to prolong the present shambles right up until the start of the season? I reckon the SPL will discuss the identity of club 12 at their meeting on Thursday. I'd put it 70-30 in favour of Dundee, but the lack of clear rules means there's a possibility it could be challenged either way. Assuming the SFL don't sell out and allow Sevco Rangers into SFL1, the clubs which move up will be Airdrie United and Stranraer, as losing play-off finalists. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P45 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 My link Aberdeen fans say naw. Who are the 17% that want to keep them? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araminta Moonbeam QC Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) 1340614102[/url]' post='6371485']This is another red herring for me.if newcohad a year out...how are they going to fund the tens of millions required to keep afloat with no income at all...they will still be incurring costs if they are a trading company..green sure as hell isn't gonna pay for utilities business rates staff costs maintenance etc. Still don't think enough people are seeing how monumentally screwed newco is financially Oh, don't get me wrong. I think the next year will bring so much grief it will make this year look like a holiday. Court cases, investigations, all the real dirt will come out once the pretence that 'we have to have Rainjurs playing fitba' is over. Couple that with no income and Chas Green will wind up Sevco and depart. It remains to be seen if anyone else will try to restart by buying another club, or similar. Edited June 25, 2012 by Araminta Moonbeam QC 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doink Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 My link Aberdeen fans say naw. Who are the 17% that want to keep them? Willie Millers relatives 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huistrinho Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Yep. It won't really change anything for Rangers fans (just like Airdrie), but if they're a new club, then they should have their records wiped. History is overrated - I don't really care either way. If it gets rid of some of the glory hunters and bigots then it's a decent trade off. I believe there is now actually a regulation in Italy that if a club goes bust, it can now start again one tier below where they were, with their history. If anything has come out of this debacle, it's the need to codify what should happen if this situation arises in the future. I'm pretty sure we all agree that demotion of 1 division is far too lenient. I'd be in favour of requiring reapplication to the bottom tier of the league structure the team is part of. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I agree with this. If they're a new club as we all know they are, then why should we treat them like the old club? That would basically just make us as bad as the Rangers fans who refuse to believe their club has died. As far as I'm concerned, new club, fresh start. If we opposed their entry for sporting reasons (i.e. another candidate had a most sustainable plan going forwards) then fair enough, but if we don't let them in, just because they used to be Rangers, then Rangers have a legitimate cause for complaint to the authorities (whether that be UEFA, FIFA, CAS, or CoS). Sevco should be treated like any other new club. But they don't want to be treated like any other new club. They want their history, trophies and titles to be associated with the new club. They can't have it both ways. If they want the trophies they won as the old club to be carried over to the new club, then they should have to accept that punishments will be applied - after all it's through unfair means that lots of these trophies were won in the first place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgecutter Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) Who are the 17% that want to keep them? Rangers fans who read the Evening Depressed*. *For those not from Aberdeen, the headline each and every day is usually 'man killed in [car / motorcyle] accident near [insert placename] Edited June 25, 2012 by Hedgecutter 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Well Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I'm not saying your talking shite but taking away a massive conspiracy theory what facts are there that the deal has be done? The SFL chairmen seem to have a lot to say on the matter right enough. I think if any more players leave Rangers then Green's Newco becomes untenable even if he gets voted into the SPL. I know what I had written was maybe a bit over the top but someone on here took it to heart and started flinging all sorts of toys out the pram. I, like most of the folk on here are responding to what we see and hear. It is very hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. I want to see Rangers die, some don't for the good of Scottish Football. I see it as a way of moving our game into the 21st Century and get rid of the bile and bigotry. I hope that the players leaving SEVCO are the start of the floodgates and the club is closed down for good. I couldn't give a monkeys if my team had to go part time as I would still buy a season ticket every year and support them as most guys on here would for their team. I can support them and talk about Football afterwards not about Old Firm manager's behaviour during and after games. Also their post match press conferences with them feeding conspiracy theories for the knuckle draggers on each side. Lets get away from all that and start talking about great goals from free kicks, decent youths coming through the ranks. Potential Scotland players from St. Johnstone, Hibs etc and not just from the Old Firm. I want to get away from all that is negative in Scottish Football aka The Old Firm. I remember 1977 and Ally's Tartan Army and the super optimism surrounding Scottish Football and us winning European Trophies with Scottish Players. Traynor and his ilk have done their damndest over the last 20 years to talk our game down to ensure everyone is depressed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jambo-rocker Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Sevco should be treated like any other new club. In that case, they should be forced to wait three years to join the SFL with watertight accounts to back up their finances. Every other new club must follow these requirements. Also, what does the 5088 at the end of Sevco mean? Is it the amount of laws that they have broke?... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) But they don't want to be treated like any other new club. They want their history, trophies and titles to be associated with the new club. They can't have it both ways. If they want the trophies they won as the old club to be carried over to the new club, then they should have to accept that punishments will be applied - after all it's through unfair means that lots of these trophies were won in the first place. As I said, I agree. If they want to keep their history, then they'll have to take their punishment for cheating. If they want to escape additional sanctions beyond starting in division 3, then they'll have to give up their history. Seems reasonable to me. In that case, they should be forced to wait three years to join the SFL with watertight accounts to back up their finances. Every other new club must follow these requirements. I read on this thread somewhere (might have been Craigkillie or HJ) that this isn't actually a requirement for the SFL. I don't have anything to back that up though. Edited June 25, 2012 by xbl 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland Dogma Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I'm just floating an idea out here, but is it possible that Green will shift ownership of Ibrox & Murray Park to one of his other companies then put Sevco 5088 into administration/liquidation, walking away with the assets? He could then try to sell or rent them to any other wannabe Rangers outfits, or failing that could presumably attempt to develop them for housing in some way. That wud still kill newco tho...if green was to cover his own costs the leaseback would still be expensive and newco would need to be able to fund massive operating costs from tiny revenue...remember with Cl TV money and crowds large sponsorship deals spl crowds and TV money they were losing Millions annually. This model would have none of that revenue but all the overheads except the most expensive player's! Green himself said they could save seven mill on wages but they were losing over twelve million pa with all those revenue streams...they are royally boned plus five n half million in debt before next pay day! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Roth Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Nacho Novo Rangers man #1WVB If you obey societys' rules you will be societys' tools Group:True Blue Topics:1,353 Posts:25,101 Rep:1,260 Joined:22-December 07 Gender:Male Location:Teuchterland Posted Yesterday, 03:37 PM POPULAR Well Nacho.......the tattoo, the twitter account, the open dislike of the Bheast and its following, you certainly talk the talk, and the Bears love you for it. 33 years old, contracted to Legia Warsaw until August 16th.........you now have the opportunity to walk the walk. You're already a hero, time to become a legend now wee man. Step up and play. This ably demonstrates the delusion that many buns are still labouring under. Despite their club teetering on the brink they're still keeping their hopes up with dreams of ex-players answering "the call". Picture the scene, ex-buns scattered all across Europe and the US going about their business, when, as one, they see a sign in the sky, a bit like the bat-signal but shaped like a cock. They stop what they're doing and rush home to tell their families they must leave on a mission of the utmost urgency. Gathering in Charley Green's bedsit they dig out their old CR Smith tops and call a press conference where they pledge to fight for the survival of The Rangers. This isn't for the money, this isn't for the glory, this is because they're professional footballers and are above such vulgar motivations. Etc, etc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huistrinho Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 In that case, they should be forced to wait three years to join the SFL with watertight accounts to back up their finances. Every other new club must follow these requirements. It's been said that this rule is discretionary. IMO it would likely be waived for any top flight club seeking readmission (assuming it didn't seem like Del Boy was in charge of whatever newco.). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 Some random questions in my brain.... SFA 'replacement sanctions' in lieu of transfer embargo - when do we know? SPL 'prima facie' case to answer in regard to EBTs - when do we hear more about this? BDO 'going after' individuals - what sort of timescale here? Ticketus deal - no-one even mentions them now - irrelevant? Sky - at what point do they show their hand in regard to broadcasting a 'Rangers free' SPL? Club 12 - when do the authorities inform them whether they are in the SPL or not? Club 12 has zero chance to prepare to face better, and SPL street-wise teams. Campbell Ogilvie - any word on his position? Neil Doncaster - shoogliest coat peg of all time? Craig Whyte's big fines - do the SFA have plans for court action against him, or did they always see the fines they dished out as a kiddy-on gesture? 'More nuclear revelations to come out' - as hinted at by bloggers and certain journos' - hot air, or any substance? Charles Green - he obviously had an angle... It wasn't about restoring Rangers to the top of Scottish fitba' and taking on Europe - what is the cheeky scamp really up to? That's quite enough for now... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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