Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Homer Thompson]

Keevins scaremongering now up!!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/07/02/rangers-in-crisis-sfl-insider-reveals-20-clubs-could-go-the-wall-if-they-don-t-accept-newco-into-their-ranks-86908-23903342/

Presumably this depends what the Agreement says... e.g. if the Settlement falls as SPL income falls, then it would reduce; if it's a fixed sum then it continues unaffected.

Thats true, but the article states that there are 20 clubs ready to go to the wall if they lose the £60k they currently get. That, quite plainly, is nonsense. Its, roughly, the equivalent of one, maybe two, players salaries. Every single club in the country could run with one less player in the squad, if they had to.

[DeeGeeOneHamer]

Thats true, but the article states that there are 20 clubs ready to go to the wall if they lose the £60k they currently get. That, quite plainly, is nonsense. Its, roughly, the equivalent of one, maybe two, players salaries. Every single club in the country could run with one less player in the squad, if they had to.

Take your voice of reason, trundle half way across the Suspension Bridge and jump in the Nith as punishment.

[WaffenThinMint]

Anyone else read that fannyspangle Michael Grant's latest Orc propaganda piece in The Herald today?

No to newco' a sound view, but 'yes' supporters must also be heard

SPARE a thought for the poor souls hiding away around Scotland who might want to whisper "yes to newco".

They must exist. Perhaps there are thousands of them. Maybe the majority of Scottish League clubs will turn out to be supportive of letting Rangers join them at first-division level, but are too nervous about openly saying so. If not, and there is widespread or unanimous objection to the option favoured in the "Your Game, Your Club, Your Future" document sent around by the Scottish Football League executive, that's quite a slap in the face for the governing body.

Well here's your answer, courtesy of The Scotsman's Sports section:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport

Rangers poll

Monday, 2 July 2012

What league should a newly-formed Rangers be allowed to play in next season?

SPL

238 (1%)

Division One

181 (1%) Division Two

30 (0%)

Division Three

23062 (98%)

That I reckon is only because there was no "chuck them out altogether" option and Division 3 was the lowest that could be picked!

[Hedgecutter]

It seems to have escaped Mr Traynor's low intelligence threshold, that since the inception of the SPL and during Rangers years of cheating, Scotland have achieved the square root of naff all in the 'Big boys playground'.

But, but... but... both Rangers and Celtic fans will tell you that they both got to the European diddy team final, although that's like Brechin claiming that they're a big player in Scottish football because they got to the Challenge Cup final back in 2002.

[Mybitchunderprotest]

Here is Traytor's article in today's Daily Ranger - I have cut and pasted it to avoid boosting their website traffic:

If SPL & SFL kick Gers out of football they will kill our game

By jim Traytor on Jul 2, 12 07:25 AM THE shape of things to come will be decided by close of play Wednesday. We should know by then if Scottish football has been big enough to edge back from the brink.

For months now there has been a savagery. The game has been ripping itself apart all in the name of fair play. Or was it sporting integrity?

Forgive me, the reasons for the crisis that threatens to destroy Scottish football have been lost somewhere in the lust to tear and shred one club. It's as though a century of hatred and probably jealousy have erupted.

And the handful of reasoned souls left in the game are fighting a losing battle to cap the flow.

The trouble is too many men with influence have been working not for the good of the game but to selfish agendas. They've done bad things in the name of morality.

They've abused their privileged positions and if there was any decency left in the sleazy, tacky football world they inhabit they would not be allowed inside Hampden this or any other week.

The dishonourable posing as protectors of the game's integrity by making up laws and punishments as they go along.

By arguing and pressing for more severe punishments and demanding that Rangers newco be stripped of titles and trophies won in the EBT years by another business entirely, they are inflaming and prolonging an agonisingly painful and damaging period. Anyone who believes that stripping the old Rangers of baubles will help solve this meltdown should be ignored, pushed aside because we are way beyond bragging rights.

We, Scottish football, are on the brink of total collapse.

Those who are consumed by petty matters and the settling of old, ancient scores have made it harder to find the solution, the compromise agreement that's badly needed.

One day the truth about the subterfuge, deception, and downright spitefulness used to prolong this saga might be told but right now those who are trying to save what is left of the game need to be given space.

And hopefully the right and sensible decisions will be made when the SFL and SPL meet tomorrow and Wednesday respectively. Everything, the game's fate and Rangers' chances of survival never mind revival, depends on these leagues of gentlemen, if of course they do meet tomorrow.

The situation is critical yet it seems we have two clubs threatening to block tomorrow's meeting. Stenhousemuir and Alloa have an objection. God help us.

Hopefully the meetings will go ahead and if honesty and common sense prevail we might just begin to emerge from the darkness and see clearly who is working for the game and who is working for themselves.

We might also notice that in our rabid rush to condemn and stone Rangers we have stumbled to the very precipice of catastrophe.

Another misguided step or irrational utterance and Scottish football will be in total free fall so tomorrow the SFL must do one of two things.

Either they decide to let Rangers newco - who already know they don't have the support of enough SPL clubs to get the share that would let them begin again at the top - kick off in the First Division or the way is cleared for them to start in the bottom tier.

But research has shown the game will lose £16million if Rangers are dumped in the Third Division and frankly that would be too great a loss to an already impoverished business.

Supporters, of course, are entitled to be heard but the question is this: Are fans - forget the ones who can't see beyond their own hatred - willing to see what they believe to be justice done no matter the cost or consequences?

What if their justice means Scottish football would be reduced to a truly moribund state that would make recovery impossible?

What if their idea of fair play meant our game would be forever locked out of the big boys' playground?

Morals and integrity are fine but we must all be sure we can cope with the fall out, which would be considerable.

Clubs will cut right back on numbers as we're already seeing with Hibernian who have just paid off Pat Fenlon's deputy Billy Brown.

Players and wages will be next, although the first real casualty is more likely to be youth development.

Mark my words, clubs are already being squeezed by their banks who have seen Lloyds get out with all of their money back from Rangers. The other lenders also want shot of their football clients and they'll be imposing tougher repayment plans on clubs, who will use these demands as excuses to make swingeing cuts on their budgets.

If they are asked to reduce spending by £300,000 a year they'll make it £600,000 and blame it all on Rangers.

But even by making savage cuts, a number of clubs will still go bust. This will be the true price of sporting integrity.

And when the doors are being padlocked let's have no wailing or tears because too many clubs saw Rangers' insolvency as an opportunity to promote their own agendas.

Yet what good has that done any of them, apart from allowing them to invade the moral high ground for a short while. Now, though, as they hobble down having broken their toes through kicking Rangers they are suddenly confronted with reality.

They have the power to deny this new club any chance of life but they'll be condemning themselves to a miserable, empty future. Without the millions a healthy Rangers and their fans help generate, Scottish football will decline rapidly. All credibility at home and abroad will be lost.

If this is what we wish then fine, deny Rangers an SPL share on Wednesday and SFA membership when the Appellate Tribunal sits again to decide a punishment acceptable in the eyes of the real law. If this is what upholding fair play means then let's go for it.

Let's take decisions tomorrow and the next day that will chime with whatever our notions of integrity are and kill the game.

After all, we can't put a price on justice, especially in football where justice is something to be kicked around without finesse or direction.

Of course justice should be about fairness and handing down punishments that reflect the nature of crimes committed. It should always be about observing the law according to the rules and principles written down. But that's the problem with applying justice in a morally bankrupt game.

Nothing seems to be written down. If it is there in black and white no one can understand it.

The SFL have called in lawyers to make sense of their own articles ahead of tomorrow's meetings and, of course, the SFA spent a couple of years revamping their own codes, leaning heavily on the finest legal minds. Yet, when a transfer ban on Rangers was imposed it was kicked out in Edinburgh's Court of Session.

It's a grotesque farce and one club chairman had to remove himself from the entire business yesterday. He had to plod along a west-coast beach in the wind and rain to try and clear his head.

The game is pulling itself apart because some want to settle old scores with Rangers while others strive only to make the most of the problems and strengthen their own positions.

Okay, but what's the point in being powerful within a game that will soon have no real significance beyond its own boundaries?

But here are a few questions those 'just' men should ask themselves as they file into their meeting rooms on Hampden's sixth floor over the next couple of days:

Is losing all credibility, standing in the game, SFA licence, SPL share and being treated with the utmost contempt not punishment enough?

No?

Then ask yourselves this:

Is going out of business, struggling to emerge as a newco without fan support and being banned from playing in Europe for three years and being branded pariahs not punishment enough?

If the answer is still no then there is no justice.

And there is no hope. The game, and not just Rangers, will be doomed.

WE!!! Is he for real, I'm more a part of the fabric of Scottish Football than this cunt, I've been paying for a season ticket for over 25 years including a season of insolvency when despite having paid upfront I had to pay at the gate to get in. WE!!! The man is a fucking buffoon. When anyone remembers this condescending pricks part in Scottish Football, it should be as a parasite. Lived off the game for most of his life, gave nothing back and acted as a propagandist for sections of the game who should never have been given the time of day. Fuck off Traynor, you're a despicable cunt and I hope you lose your BBC income and the Record goes out of business. That would be fucking justice.

edited to remove unnecessary foul language. I've left the necessary foul language.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Mybitchunderprotest

[Ned Nederlander]

Jim,

There is a vacant space in the league, this has happened before - In those previous occasions did the league invite teams to apply to join:

A) The SPL.

B) The First Division.

C) The Third Division.

D) The Blue Square Premier.

[sjc]

If the top end of our game is so financially dependent upon Rangers (and/or) Celtic and the "benefits" they bring maybe some of our Clubs going to the wall by starting afresh from a clean slate with transparent rules, regulations & punishments for ALL might be a price worth paying.........

If I ended up following my Club in the East of Scotland League as a result of this who's to say it wouldn't be worth it in the long run & as part of the bigger picture ?

[Mark Connolly]

But, but... but... both Rangers and Celtic fans will tell you that they both got to the European diddy team final, although that's like Brechin claiming that they're a big player in Scottish football because they got to the Challenge Cup final back in 2002.

Rangers have an impressive Euro record - two finals, two riots.

[Homer Thompson]

Take your voice of reason, trundle half way across the Suspension Bridge and jump in the Nith as punishment.

I dont like the suspension bridge

[HibeeJibee]

'Big boys playground'

It seems to have escaped Mr Traynor's low intelligence threshold, that since the inception of the SPL and during Rangers years of cheating, Scotland have achieved the square root of naff all in the 'Big boys playground'. We haven't gained entry to the fancy dance as our clobber is out-dated, our patter is diabolical and even fake IDs get laughed at by the doorman at UEFA and FIFA.

Celtic x2 and Rangers x1 reached the CL last 16, both OF reached the UEFA Cup Final, national team reached a Euro 2004 play-off, we qualified for U19 Euros and U20 World Cup. Won't satisfy the "when we were great" brigade, but equally, it's not really that shabby for a nation of 5M of our sort in the modern footballing environment.

[Colin M]

Celtic x2 and Rangers x1 reached the CL last 16, both OF reached the UEFA Cup Final, national team reached a Euro 2004 play-off, we qualified for U19 Euros and U20 World Cup. Won't satisfy the "when we were great" brigade, but equally, it's not really that shabby for a nation of 5M of our sort in the modern footballing environment.

It looks like Rangers were cheating and had a significant competitive advantage to "achieve" these things. Best to stop crowing about it, I'd say.

[Sam Leitch Loyal]

Another signing target missed by Rangers.

Carlos Cuellar Won't Be Signing For Rangers - Exclusive!

"Madrid-born Cuellar rose through the leagues in his homeland, spending time with Calahorra and Numancia before joining Osasuna in 2003."

I've had those and the doctor said they were caused by eating too much Spanish food.

[blanco]

Bigot f*ckwit

^^was too ugly to get in the school cheerleading team IMO^^

[GordieBoy80]

Well said. Now let us join the EPL and leave you all to it

Cheerio.

[Sam Leitch Loyal]

Sensible news here:

Rangers Update

"Rangers’ new pub, The Red Hand & Luther, was bought with the proceeds of selling off Ibrox to a consortium of Celtic fans who intend to turn it into the world’s largest urinal."

I thought that honour was held by Hampden since the day in 1937 when 149,415 were there for the England match.

[Bob Roth]

On a slight detour but related to the Daily Retard's output lately I see their editor has been using Twitter to try and intimidate people criticising their sports' coverage.

That Burnistoun fellow Robert Florence had the cheek to call them liars and Allan Rennie (editor) hit back basically saying they had given positive reviews of the show in the rag so they expected more loyalty.

I've never watched Burnistoun so not sure that such "celebrity" support is beneficial to the cause, but it's definitely telling that the editor himself is throwing his weight around to try and limit the damage done by Jabba and his ilk.

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Digital July 02 2012 10:47

Twitter Spat Brewing as Rennie Responds to Comedian's Comments

A twitter spat is brewing this morning, with the Daily Record editor, Allan Rennie, describing a tweet by the Scots comedian, Robert Florence, as a "bit ungracious".

Rennie's involvement follows a series of tweets about the Daily Record's sports coverage by Florence, who co-writes and stars in the BBC sketch show, Burnistoun.

And Florence's reaction to Rennie's response - which reads: "Bit ungracious. Would that be the same Daily Record that consistently championed your show." - this morning also runs into several tweets.

[mcgrains_beard]

Traynor and his bosses are in the business of selling papers. There will still be "hunnnners" of stories about Newco in the Record next season, no matter what league they are in as Scotland is riddled with Sevco fans and Sevco appologists.

[Highland Dogma]

Celtic x2 and Rangers x1 reached the CL last 16, both OF reached the UEFA Cup Final, national team reached a Euro 2004 play-off, we qualified for U19 Euros and U20 World Cup. Won't satisfy the "when we were great" brigade, but equally, it's not really that shabby for a nation of 5M of our sort in the modern footballing environment.

And the counter to that is that rfc used financial cheating to fund those limited achievements.prior to sdm cheating Scotland qualified for ever WC between. 74 and 90 Aberdeen won the cup winners cup and super cup dutd reached uefa cup final and European cup semi final. Teams like Barcelona real Madrid etc were beaten by teams made up of predominantly Scottish players who lived within their means

[OlegSalenko]

Good morning, what's the latest news fae the diddy team hate-fest that is this thread?

[Cutty Old]

The strategy taken by James Traynor, and quite a few others, is to label everyone who disagrees with Sevco being parachuted into the first division as having an axe to grind and taking their stance because of petty jealousy. Simplistic nonsense Mr Traynor. I, and many of my colleague diddies, have yet to taste any measure of success following our teams and we would have been content to continue with our support of the diddy teams in full knowledge that we would never win anything. Importantly, we insist on doing it in accordance with the rules.

Plenty people are having their say about Mr. Traynor but this morning I am reserving my disdain for Michael Grant of The Herald;

SPARE a thought for the poor souls hiding away around Scotland who might want to whisper "yes to newco".

They must exist. Perhaps there are thousands of them.

They must exist ? Why ? Because Michael says they must exist ? Top notch journalism backed up by extensive investigation........Pah !

Maybe the majority of Scottish League clubs will turn out to be supportive of letting Rangers join them at first-division level, but are too nervous about openly saying so. If not, and there is widespread or unanimous objection to the option favoured in the "Your Game, Your Club, Your Future" document sent around by the Scottish Football League executive, that's quite a slap in the face for the governing body.

It is a slap in the face that is richly deserved for showing a lack of respect for the rules that govern our game. The "no to newco" campaign has been a brilliant success. It has served as a refreshing demonstration of how club owners and chairmen can be brought to heel – however reluctantly – by those to whom they are answerable. Club after club fell to the protest at SPL level and the mood has now swept up a growing number of lower-league clubs. Enough to deny Rangers admission to the SFL at first division level? That's hard to say, because the majority required to vote them in at that level isn't clear yet. It could be two-thirds of SFL clubs or 75%.

Our leaders are so poor and indecisive that they still don't know what percentage of the vote will carry the decision ? Worse still, you don't even question that ?

So far only the "no" side has really spoken up. Maybe that's a near unanimous position, but that's hard to believe. Why is it so hard to believe ?

Views have been clouded by blind tribalism. Let me get this right. I'm reading this to hear your guesses ? Why not elicit the views of the fans ? Too lazy ?

but even among fans of any given club, it is too big an issue for only one opinion to exist. The shame is that those who might think some good could come from all of this, or that there may be something in it for their own club, are nervous about saying so lest they get shouted down as Rangers apologists.

You have decided, in your wisdom, that people who agree with the rule breaking are shy about expressing this point of view ? Where are these people ? As for them being nervous about being labelled as apologists, these 'thousands' must have told you this. So, they're happy to tell you but nobody else ?

No-one is well served by this debate being reduced to crude, simplistic terms. "Yes" or "no" to newco. "Tough" or "lenient" on Rangers. Those who might have the temerity to think the idea of planting them in the first division has justifiable wider consequences – or "balances the need for short-term redemption with a least-worse-case financial scenario" as the SFL document puts it – haven't felt bold enough to say so. That's a pity, as it's a view that needs to be heard.

And you are clearly airing that view. I would suggest that the view belongs to the scottish media and not to the fictional 'thousands' who are scared to speak.

The Scottish League has already failed on one crucial respect. The document says "we need some clear communication priorities for the SFL" and talks of "logical and positive communication to eliminate doubt, threat and insecurity". They want the Rangers-in-the-first-division option to be embraced but have done nothing to sell it or set an agenda which might have made it sound appealing. Instead of using the media, they have played hard to get. Clubs will be consulted tomorrow but the momentum is already set: Raith Rovers, Falkirk, Clyde, Morton and others have jumped on to the "no to newco" campaign from SPL clubs and swept it into the lower leagues. Anything else is a much, much harder sell now.

Maybe you should try interviewing the officials from these clubs to establish if they are acting out tribal warfare and kicking a club when they are down. Perhaps they would give you sensible reasoning for their decision to oppose this ridiculous idea.

But the document talks of £16m being lost to Scottish football if Rangers have to start in the third division. That figure demands explanation. If it's accurate, it is a chilling sum. Clubs should be deeply worried about that, and be asking questions rather than rushing out statements.

And yet you didn't think to question the author of this document ? Do you claim to be a journalist ?

Of course Rangers into the first division is a fudge and a deliberate redrawing of the league structure in order to accommodate them. It's an ugly compromise and – to use the phrase associated with Tony Blair's re-election in 2005 – people may have to hold their noses if they vote for it. But if that helps to preserve other clubs at something close to their current levels without the risk of redundancies or administration, and acts as the catalyst for broader changes for the good of the whole game, it has to be looked at with maturity instead of being shouted down as a cheat's charter.

And finally, you admit that the whole idea of parachuting this club into the first division is a fudge. If I may say so, you are a fudge too, minus the ge at the end of the word.

If the warnings of economic meltdown without Rangers in either of the top two divisions are justified then let's hear far more details. "No to newco" is a perfectly sound view, but this debate is too important for only one side of the chamber to have a voice.

OK Pet, so off you pop and start looking for the masses of people who are desperate to have Sevco in the first division. Good luck, youll need it.

To think that people like Michael Grant are paid to write this drivel.