HibeeJibee Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) If the SFL see new Rangers as a continuation of the old one, why were they in the League Cup draw today, and why were they unseeded? Isn't seeding based on the previous year's finish? Rangers currently don't have that continuity as SFA membership hasn't yet been transferred. Potentially they should then become a seed in R2 + R3 if they progress, but I suspect they won't be as they "started-out" the cup as 42nd. EDIT: Also to go back to Clydebank for a moment... obviously the 2 scenarios aren't the same as Clydebank were bought-over, relocated and renamed. However SFL regards Airdrie Utd as Clydebank, yes. Edited July 20, 2012 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GirondistNYC Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 C'mon guys, a little perspective here. People were panicking that they would sneak back into the SPL not too long ago. Then it looked that they would be jammed into the first... Didn't happen. After the court of sessions the disrepute charge was going to turn into a mere cup ban - again, didn't happen. If you all were told in February that Rangers would be playing in the Third with only a month in which to build a squad using an SPL focused scouting team to identify SFL players to be acquired with very shaky finances before a two window transfer ban kicked in you wouldn't have believed it. I certainly wouldn't have. They may very well die off the pitch due to running costs and Investor problems. They may very well struggle on the pitch. Regardless, their liquidation and comprehensive humiliation is a fact and won't change. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Dundee Utd? Are you sure? Really, Is this what we've become? If you're not part of the lynch mob you must be one of them. If you're genuinely interested why don't you go back through my previous posts. I don't have anything to hide. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 If Motherwell, Dundee or St Mirren had been liquidated, their "newco" would probably not have been granted entry into the SFL. Airdrieonians is a precedent for that. Fair enough. I'd like to hope that you're wrong but we're just putting opinions out there. FWIW I'd say that what Airdrie subsequently got away with was far more distasteful than simply admitting them to the 3rd division so you can read that precedent either way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wokcomble Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 That's a shame - losing the history was one of the things that seemed to hurt the most ! so they are now, effectively, the same club - 'Rangers' - with all the history, including the history the gained against clubs that were 'paying their way' just the debts gone and they are in the third ? That's no that bad - hardly a deterrent for other clubs !! I just can't get my head round this - if Rangers F.C. (oldco) are going to be liquidated shortly, and The Rangers F.C. (newco) are coming into being, I can't for the life of me see how you can transfer 'history'. If a clubs liquidated, it's liquidated, short and simple. how on earth can you transfer anything other than the so-called 'share' ? I don't get it but probably the SFA and oldco/newco understand it all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunfellaff Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Really, Is this what we've become? If you're not part of the lynch mob you must be one of them. Dont you understand anything? If you're not part of the lynch mob you must be one of them , or one of the media, or an SPL/SFL chairman, or an SFA executive or a potential asset stripper investor or just plain bonkers (see Gio or Bomber). Sheeeesh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 ^ Bullshit! ^ The Truth is... The business cheated to benefit the team/club - simple fact. All the wrongdoing that the business participated in was to benefit the team/club. Simple fact. Rangers new owner Charles Green faces company name problems - http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/18509619 Calm down son. Pretty sure that's what I said. The company committed the sins and the team benefitted. The company is now dead (formal process pendiing) and the team is carrying over related sanctions). It's silly however to suggest that the team should have been killed entirely. Should Juve have been killed following their match-fixing shenanigans? Marseille? etc (it's a long list I'm sure). The company name problem story is more than a month old and is nonsense. There are some prohibitions on re-using trading names but there are exceptions and one of those exceptions is where the business is sold as a going concern by administrators. I explained all this about 1500 pages back if you can be arsed looking (including a link to the relevant statutory provisions, I believe). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
distresseduke Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Vlad will see the precedent as a price worth paying to clear the decks... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Fair enough. I'd like to hope that you're wrong but we're just putting opinions out there. FWIW I'd say that what Airdrie subsequently got away with was far more distasteful than simply admitting them to the 3rd division so you can read that precedent either way. Airdrieonians died never to return, It was shocking what the SFA & SFL allowed to happen to Clydebank 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Vlad will see the precedent as a price worth paying to clear the decks... Yes, I'm sure he's desperate to cheat Hearts' main creditor out of money. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itwiznaeme Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Hilarious video from the bhoys. "It's the country that's lame". Superb. "THE MEDIA - WE ARE 'ALL' PAWNS IN THEIR GAME." ...SO TRUE. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P45 Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 From looking at Twitter one thing is certain, Rangers fans HATE the club being referred to as Newco, or Sevco. Lovely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Yes but a lot of that horrible shit isn't directly related to this current episode. It takes a lot to make me sympathise with those horrible kunts (and I'm nowhere near there yet) but, equally, this current blood lust just seems a little hysterical. Ha ha, you said currant! Seriously, do you think anyone just turned round in the last few weeks/months and said "D'ye know, I've just decided I hate rangers"? I have hated rangers since the day I was told that I was less than "the peepul" simply because of the school I went to. I turned away from the other Ugly Sister at the same time - even at five years old, I didn't want to be one of the "with us or against us" brigade. Obviously I couldn't articulate why at that age, but some things just always seem wrong. My team have seen years of famine and years of relative feats, but they've always been a FOOTBALL club - nothing more, nothing less. As I grew up and matured, it became more and more obvious I had made the right choice. The only Scottish grounds where I have felt in real fear were the temples of bigotry. The only violence I suffered at a football match was when rangers visited RP. Outside of my personal experience, rangers continued to spread shame whenever they left our borders - even for so-called "friendly" matches. How many football fans would choose to riot on the night their team won their biggest trophy? In my youth, to be honest, the green Sisters appeared to be better ambassadors for our country - although the bar was set pretty damn low. The celtic of my youth were, in all honesty, an exciting team to watch and their fans (bar the eedjits who followed EVERY team in those days) appeared to enjoy themselves on their travels rather than treat away trips as invasions of enemy territory. In recent years, things have taken a turn for the worse. Both celtic and rangers have built their joint enterprise on an encouragement of bigotry - for all the lip service paid to "initiatives" and "campaigns", they both knew where the money was. Yes, both. From joint statements of their intent to leave Scottish football, to the decades of joint sponsorship deals, their relationship is one of incestuous self-interest. The best hope for Scotland is that, even if it does not deservedly die, the blue half will be far enough removed from their green partners for long enough that both their acolytes may start to follow their sides for footballing reasons or, in the case of the "minorities", drift away from the game in confusion, not knowing who they're supposed to hate anymore. It won't stop sectarianism in Scotland, but it will dim the two biggest beacons which attract the scum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyderspaceman Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 :lol: :lol: :lol: I really have to get back on there. Unfuckingbelievable No8,(nice No8) it must be difficult to support your team (I deliberately don't say 'club') and at the same time dissociate yourself from a large body of the support. I genuinely hope that there really exists a "decent" Rangers support, for the future of fitba'. I have one "rangers" pal, a good friend, who has a similar views to you. I hope you guys prevail. Pished, so being honest. eta he's not my only pal, before any c***s start. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Ha ha, you said currant! Seriously, do you think anyone just turned round in the last few weeks/months and said "D'ye know, I've just decided I hate rangers"? I have hated rangers since the day I was told that I was less than "the peepul" simply because of the school I went to. I turned away from the other Ugly Sister at the same time - even at five years old, I didn't want to be one of the "with us or against us" brigade. Obviously I couldn't articulate why at that age, but some things just always seem wrong. My team have seen years of famine and years of relative feats, but they've always been a FOOTBALL club - nothing more, nothing less. As I grew up and matured, it became more and more obvious I had made the right choice. The only Scottish grounds where I have felt in real fear were the temples of bigotry. The only violence I suffered at a football match was when rangers visited RP. Outside of my personal experience, rangers continued to spread shame whenever they left our borders - even for so-called "friendly" matches. How many football fans would choose to riot on the night their team won their biggest trophy? In my youth, to be honest, the green Sisters appeared to be better ambassadors for our country - although the bar was set pretty damn low. The celtic of my youth were, in all honesty, an exciting team to watch and their fans (bar the eedjits who followed EVERY team in those days) appeared to enjoy themselves on their travels rather than treat away trips as invasions of enemy territory. In recent years, things have taken a turn for the worse. Both celtic and rangers have built their joint enterprise on an encouragement of bigotry - for all the lip service paid to "initiatives" and "campaigns", they both knew where the money was. Yes, both. From joint statements of their intent to leave Scottish football, to the decades of joint sponsorship deals, their relationship is one of incestuous self-interest. The best hope for Scotland is that, even if it does not deservedly die, the blue half will be far enough removed from their green partners for long enough that both their acolytes may start to follow their sides for footballing reasons or, in the case of the "minorities", drift away from the game in confusion, not knowing who they're supposed to hate anymore. It won't stop sectarianism in Scotland, but it will dim the two biggest beacons which attract the scum. You hate Rangers, I get it. Thanks for sharing. -4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fife Saint Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) Really, Is this what we've become? If you're not part of the lynch mob you must be one of them. If you're genuinely interested why don't you go back through my previous posts. I don't have anything to hide. I will vouch for Pull My Strings, he's an Arab of fine standing for the years i've been posting on here. We need to move on or get bogged down in an unwinnable battle against a clearly biased system. I intend to refer to Sevco as cheats from now on and will never let them forget it. Presumably the dual-contract findings will see them expelled regardless of the appellate decision. Won't it? WON'T IT?!?! Edited July 20, 2012 by Fife Saint 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I just can't get my head round this - if Rangers F.C. (oldco) are going to be liquidated shortly, and The Rangers F.C. (newco) are coming into being, I can't for the life of me see how you can transfer 'history'. If a clubs liquidated, it's liquidated, short and simple. how on earth can you transfer anything other than the so-called 'share' ? I don't get it but probably the SFA and oldco/newco understand it all. You can't have it both ways though. If they're a new club [note: not company] then they're not responsible for another club's misdemneaours. Thus no transfer embargo, paying of fines, etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itwiznaeme Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Should Juve have been killed following their match-fixing shenanigans? Marseille? etc (it's a long list I'm sure). Yes. Of course they should have. Any and All individuals / clubs / members of sporting authorities proven to be involved in "fixing" sports results be it by way of fraud & deception, steroids/doping, financial doping, etc they should be banned for life. All trophies/awards that were won by the guilty by way of such cheating should be removed from them and the reason for their removal should be recorded in the record books for all to see as warning. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
distresseduke Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Yes, I'm sure he's desperate to cheat Hearts' main creditor out of money. of course...never thought of it that way...now that you mention it a few hundred thousand is worth far more than the 40 odd million debt that hearts are in 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GirondistNYC Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 1342814992[/url]' post='6451239']I just can't get my head round this - if Rangers F.C. (oldco) are going to be liquidated shortly, and The Rangers F.C. (newco) are coming into being, I can't for the life of me see how you can transfer 'history'. If a clubs liquidated, it's liquidated, short and simple. how on earth can you transfer anything other than the so-called 'share' ? I don't get it but probably the SFA and oldco/newco understand it all. Green bought the intellectual property of OldCo, which clearly includes the strip, the badge, etc. barring a challenge by BDO as liquidator of the terms of sale or a (as I understand it unlikely) legal argument that using the marks is misleading, they can thus call themselves "Rangers" and wear the shirts. The history bit is trickier. The Bears will argue that the club was separate from the OldCo, was purchased by NewCo and has continued. Everyone was else will argue liquidation killed the history and the club was not distinct from the legal entity. The SFA license and SFL/SPL share is separate from, but related to, both the legal corporate form and the metaphysical and legally indistinct concept of "the club" the Bears rely on. By dropping Rangers to the Third rather than making them apply the SFL acknowledged some continuity between OldCo and NewCo, making sanctions possible but also bolstering the Orcs "club not company" line. As a practical matter, regardless of what happened Bears were going to claim the history (see Juventus and the disputed titles) and the rest of the world would see, at best, an asterix over it. If, as expected, the SPL inquiry ends up stripping titles then pub quiz questions involving titles won are going to turn into brawls in the years ahead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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