bennett Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Nope, he can do it. I know he can. "Run Forrest, run !" Leave densboy alone, it's not his fault... -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aofjays Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I wonder how many of the outraged folk on here use companies like Starbucks, Amazon, Google, Vodafone, Subway etc? 1 in 4 of the top UK companies apparently pay no tax but you see very little outrage over this.. Do you know why they are allowed to get away with it? The fear is that if we forced them to pay tax they would move (and take their jobs) to a different country. Capitalism at it's finest. Also people bitch about this all the time. Not on a football forum though. That would just look like deflection or whataboutery. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Do you know why they are allowed to get away with it? The fear is that if we forced them to pay tax they would move (and take their jobs) to a different country. Capitalism at it's finest. Also people bitch about this all the time. Not on a football forum though. That would just look like deflection or whataboutery. Or you could have said that most people don't give two f**ks and what we see on here is just a handful of faux offended morons giving it laldy on the internet... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Dave is no angel, there is no getting away from tax cheating past, however I get the feeling that those wanting /praying for him to stay away are mainly on the other side of the fence. In different circumstances I would certainly agree but when you are stuck between a rock and a hard place you will take the best of the bad options. I don't think anyone on the other side of the fence is praying that he'll stay away. If the approach he favours is the one that is taken, it might lead to some short term glory but you're looking at going full circle and winding up back in massive debt very quickly, unless there is someone to continually bail you out. Any approach based on the necessity of European football and the income it brings can only end one way. The Celtic board deserve enormous credit for realising this, even if a sizeable portion of the fan base only see them failing to spend what they think is available. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aofjays Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Or you could have said that most people don't give two f**ks and what we see on here is just a handful of faux offended morons giving it laldy on the internet... I could have, but then I'd be lying. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Or you could have said that most people don't give two f**ks and what we see on here is just a handful of faux offended morons giving it laldy on the internet... Are you seriously comparing, convicted, tax evasion by an individual to corporate tax avoidance? Or seriously trying to suggest that no-one is interested, or has complained about, massive corporations "dodging" paying tax?? On a more serious note, I'd still like to discuss how the supporters club come to the conclusion that entering into a commercial transaction entitles them to security over the company assets 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macshimmy Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Statement from Wallace in the Herald: On the half year results"What you have seen in the six month period we have announced is a step forward. What we are trying to do overall here is put in place a very stable, professional way of rebuilding the club and taking it back to where it should be. Part of that is looking at how we are managing the business from a cost perspective and from a cash perspective but also equally importantly how we are putting in the right drivers to grow our commercial revenue and how we can grow that top line revenue as well as managing the outflows."A large bulk of the money raised from the IPO had already been spent and what we are trying to do is put the business on a very firm footing to build from."Retail joint venture with Sports Direct"I think it is performing in line with expectations. It is still early days as it has only just had over a year of it operating. Being in partnership with Sports Direct, one of the premier retailers in terms of being able to focus on the ground at a retail level in a way that a standalone entity would never be able to do, is helpful for us. As we look forward the results to date are in line with what we had hoped for but still give us a sense of optimism that there is considerable growth to be achieved going forward."Staff costs"Part of what we have done in the review is look at the areas of expenditure and question and challenge everything we have been doing within the club. We have made some changes in the past few months and we just continue to work away, as you would expect in any business, on how we can improve our cost base and the efficiency and effectiveness of the business."That certainly continues but in a fashion you would find in any leading business. You are constantly challenging what you are doing and what you are spending and it forms part of our overall business review that we are closing in on."Growing commercial revenues and the Rangers By Appointment scheme"There are a number of companies now signed up to it and getting benefit from it. It sits quite nicely into my vision about re-establishing Rangers as a brand, as a club, as a company that leading organisations want to be part of. If you put it against a background of what this club has had to deal with over the past two or three years getting leading organisations partnering with Rangers has been a challenge and is still a challenge when the external environment is one of potentially suspicion or instability or questions about the long term strategy or survival."The business by appointment scheme for the local business community has paid dividends but I view that as just a start. We have initiatives going on now [for] a completely fresh look at our commercial partnerships, looking to target and attract leading blue chip businesses to partner with Rangers. Again to help us grow our top line revenue. If we can grow the top line revenue then the more headroom we have in terms of investing back into the team and other areas of the business."Further spending on improving infrastructure/Ibrox"Without putting a definitive number on it we would constantly be wanting to look at the standard of what we have. There are areas of the stadium that do need a bit of a refresh. When you put it against the background of some of the financial challenges the club has had it is probably understandable why some of those investments have been pushed a bit further down the priority list. As we look at trying to create and deliver a match day environment and experience that Rangers fans enjoy then it goes without saying that we need to have a rolling programme that will look at levels of investment in order to pay attention to some of the areas that have been neglected in the recent past."Full-year performance"We would expect full year performance at a revenue level to be ahead of last year. At an operating profit or operating loss level we have reported a near 50% improvement in the half-year and I think you can be looking for a similar measure of improvement in the latter half-year. It is very much moving towards that kind of break even [or] profitability segment."Material uncertainty noted in the accounts about season ticket money"We put in place the short term facilities to give ourselves some additional headroom following a detailed review of the business plans and assumptions we inherited. We realised there were some changes that needed to be made so we did that to give ourselves some additional headroom."The key material uncertainty we disclose about the timing of season ticket money. To my mind that is no different to virtually every other football club in the land where you have your season ticket money flowing in at a comparable rate and comparable timing year after year. If all of a sudden you were to introduce changes to significant elements of that it would be quite reasonable for people to say there could potentially be an impact on the cash position if significant chunks of the season money was to flow in at a later stage. What we can say in terms of how we are running the business now and managing the cash and how we are managing our ability to run the business I am very comfortable with where we are and I am very comfortable with the processes we have in place now to give us a proper level of comfort and assurance on the way the money is being spent."120 day review and seeking further investment"What I wanted to do was come in and stand back and take a strategic view of where the club needed to be going, what we needed to deliver that and the organisational structure and the cost base. We have just been working through the business so we have a clear view of what we think the next five years could look like for Rangers. From that what does that mean in terms of our ability to generate income and our need for investment. We have said several times the business will need investment. What we need to do as a board is finalise the size of that investment and the timing of when it is needed. We are going from the third tier to the second tier clearly with an aspiration to be back in the top division the year after."Once the board has determined what we need and when we will have a series of conversations with existing shareholders and other interested parties. That is absolutely fine. What we are trying to do is the right thing for Rangers, the right thing for supporters and the right thing for shareholders." Put it side by side with the statement from the Sons of Seethe about being 'a club' not a commodity, and it starts to look like a pretty major clash of worlds I would say. Popcorn? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Don Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Re the UoF statement, it ends with a reference to "Dave King' s offer of £30m". Has there ever really been such a thing though? He's talked of such sums being necessary, he's even said he'd be willing to plough money in for no return. I'm not sure that anything he's said amounts to a firm offer though and even if it did, would you believe him? FWIW, I can actually see the logic in attempting to withhold or divert ST money, given how poorly the fans have been served since Newco, by simply handing it over. The problem however is the jeopardy the club may be placed in by doing so. Throw in the fact that the champion of such a scheme is far from entirely stable or trustworthy, and you really do have a rock / hard place scenario. Hugh MacDonald - Chief sportswriter The Herald - ''How much are you personally willing to put in? Dave King - Complete loony - ''I think the club needs £30m-£50m over the next 5yrs and I am willing to share the shortfall as to what I get from other people. I would like as much as possible from other people.'' Hugh MacDonald - Chief sportswriter The Herald - ''But that could end up with the thick end of £50m to find?'' Dave King - Complete loony - ''Sure.'' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florentine_Pogen Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Hugh MacDonald - Chief sportswriter The Herald - ''How much are you personally willing to put in? Dave King - Complete loony - ''I think the club needs £30m-£50m over the next 5yrs and I am willing to share the shortfall as to what I get from other people. I would like as much as possible from other people.'' Hugh MacDonald - Chief sportswriter The Herald - ''But that could end up with the thick end of £50m to find?'' Dave King - Complete loony - ''Sure.'' He might be a swivel-eyed loony, in fact he might be positively sectionable but he's playing the Orcs like a Stradivarius. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloomogganners Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 He might be a swivel-eyed loony, in fact he might be positively sectionable but he's playing the Orcs like a Stradivarius. "I have first option on [his] shares and would not forgo this unless I was absolutely certain that any proposed transaction, that excluded me, was in the best interests of the club," 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddy Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 When's the deadline for ST cash? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyWellFan Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Why are Sevco such a massive mess? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I have no idea how this would work, on Radio Scotland last night the presenter said this was a simple straight forward request but made no attempt to explain how it would work. Normally assets can be used as security for a commercial loan, until it is paid back, ST money is a sort of loan, well at least it is treated as deferred income which transfers across at point of delivering the goods, on a match per match basis, in the event of insolvency where the contract can no longer be fulfilled, ST holders become creditors, I take it that if this could be done legally then the security would be released on the final home game of the season. Its not a loan though, is it? Its an up-front purchase of a subscription, for want of a better word. If I paid for my Sky TV, for example, in advance for the year I would become a creditor in the event Sky went bust. Im not loaning Sky money, nor expecting anything in return other than the goods I am paying for 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florentine_Pogen Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Why are Sevco such a massive mess? 1. Go to Lidl and buy 10 x 24 bottles of Stella Artois. Also buy lots and lots of crisps and / or popcorn. And fags. 2. Get settled in fave chair with Big Slipper. 3. Open this thread at Page 1. 4. Begin reading........... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyWellFan Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 1. Go to Lidl and buy 10 x 24 bottles of Stella Artois. Also buy lots and lots of crisps and / or popcorn. And fags. 2. Get settled in fave chair with Big Slipper. 3. Open this thread at Page 1. 4. Begin reading........... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Don Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 His words were; “I’ve lost £20m in Rangers already and I’m happy to lose another £30m as I love the team. I don’t want to be arrogant but it might be easier for me to lose £30m than it is for some fans to afford season tickets." and "But I would say I would probably have to put in £30m of the £50m over the period of time. And I could probably get other people to put in £20m." and ‘Would I be willing to invest £30m despite what happened previously? Of course. Sure.’ Seems to be 'over a period of time' is the telling phrase. I've highlighted in red the bit I find most telling. He's also said ''Would losing such an amount affect my lifestyle? No it would not, not in the slightest.'' Does not want to sound arrogant indeed. I think we could be heading for a Coventry scenario where one company owned the assets and another the club, they failed a a CVA because the largest creditor was the asset owner and were forced to go down the newco route and find another stadium. The spivs may feel they have a stronger hand though for a few reasons (1) it appears that newco`s in Scotland can not simply carry on in the same division like Coventry and Ibrox is a huge part of Rangers and there are no near by stadiums that could be used. A lot of the support have stated as defining for them (and this may have inc yourself) the same club argument is:- ''As long as there is a team playing in blue at Ibrox with Rangers in the name..''. So will it be a case of ''2 out of 3 ain't bad''? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Don Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 You could always pray I suppose. Edited for daft typo, forgot how precise you have to been on BRALT And you still got it wrong. Rusty, very rusty 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdTheDuck Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Do you know why they are allowed to get away with it? The fear is that if we forced them to pay tax they would move (and take their jobs) to a different country. Capitalism at it's finest. Also people bitch about this all the time. Not on a football forum though. That would just look like deflection or whataboutery. Nonsense of the highest order... Corporation tax (tax on profit) is and always has been a volatile source of government income and the trend has been more towards taxation of labour and property taxes which provide a steadier income and also a far harder form of taxation for accountants to avoid. In this instance it was the non-payment of PAYE & VAT that did for Version 1.0, not any tax on non-existent profits. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 As I said, I am not sure how it would work, was just a guess. No, I realise that. Its the best guess so far, but Im not convinced it fits. Its an open question for anyone that can answer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Why are Sevco such a massive mess? It's fucking brilliant, long may it continue, ending only with the permanent death of whatever Club/Company the Orcs choose to attach themselves to. Dandies winning shit and the currants in a great, big, smelly mess, I never thought I'd see the day 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.