CityDave Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 So is Scotland's failure in Europe over the last couple of years down to no Rangers in Europe?. Who's fault is that?. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sting777 Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Depends what you mean by expected, said it before, it used to be embarrassing when all our club sides were out of Europe by Christmas, now it seems acceptable if they have all been annihilated before the season has really got under way, we have regressed considerably and its getting worse. And it's all because Sevco aren't in the top league. That's Sevco, the team that's been hammered in recent diddy cups by QOTS and Raith Rovers.....dear oh dear! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sting777 Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 As for Rangers record in Europe..We were the last team from this country to feature in a major European final. Yeah, through cheating, by playing players that you obviously couldn't afford. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sting777 Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 dear oh dear indeed, you will have to show me where I mentioned Rangers, the decline has being going on for years. So you Sevs are not implying that the reason for the decline is because of the death of Rangers?? Why are Sev fans bringing up the UEFA Cup final then even though you only got there by playing players that the club obviously could not afford! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No8. Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 So is Scotland's failure in Europe over the last couple of years down to no Rangers in Europe?. Who's fault is that?. Not at all there has been a steady decline in the standard of football in the country over a number of years and this slide has not been helped by having no Rangers in the top league. Other clubs supporters have not flocked back to the grounds in the way some thought they would and the figures given out as official attendances are scandalous and surely nobody takes them seriously anymore. Your own club are top of the league. That's great but this present ICT are no better than the team that Butcher had playing so well a few seasons. The National team are doing well now under a proper football manager and that is the only positive i can see in the game in Scotland at the moment 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sting777 Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Other clubs supporters have not flocked back to the grounds in the way some thought they would and the figures given out as official attendances are scandalous and surely nobody takes them seriously anymore. t Totally agree, when I see a Sevco game at Ibrox on the telly I am astounded at the official crowd given in the papers! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I never mentioned Rangers Stoney, I was clearly talking about the national sides doing well in Europe, but hey you have already made it clear that you could not care less about our European irrelevance. National sides? Scotland, England, Wales & N Ireland? I thought you were blethering about the champions league? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I never mentioned Rangers Stoney, I was clearly talking about the national sides doing well in Europe, but hey you have already made it clear that you could not care less about our European irrelevance. National sides? Scotland, England, Wales & N Ireland? I thought you were blethering about the champions league? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sting777 Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Correct, the discussion was people suggesting Scottish Football is just fine, some have said this proven because other teams are winning competitions, some have admitted they do not really care about how irrelevant we are in Europe these days as long as they can laugh at the OF, with ambition like this on display then it is hardly surprising our irrelevance is terminal. Scottish football is doing OK. National team is improving rapidly, most teams have seen increases in their crowds, the honours are being spread out more evenly. Europe is a problem, but it's clear that the start date of these competitions are weighed heavily against any Scottish clubs. It's patently clear what teams are struggling at the moment and one club in particular where terminal could be a very apt word! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aofjays Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Correct, the discussion was people suggesting Scottish Football is just fine, some have said this proven because other teams are winning competitions, some have admitted they do not really care about how irrelevant we are in Europe these days as long as they can laugh at the OF, with ambition like this on display then it is hardly surprising our irrelevance is terminal. Teams without money to compete in Europe not competing in Europe shocker. Armageddon!!! I'd rather be irrelevant than cheats, I guess that's the difference between diddies and such class acts as yourself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Correct, the discussion was people suggesting Scottish Football is just fine, some have said this proven because other teams are winning competitions, some have admitted they do not really care about how irrelevant we are in Europe these days as long as they can laugh at the OF, with ambition like this on display then it is hardly surprising our irrelevance is terminal. To be perfectly honest, I'm not that bothered about perceptions abroad or lack of title races or whatever else the Rangers fans say make Scottish football shite. Like you with Rangers, I just like going to see my team play. I've been lucky over the last 3 years in that my team have won a trophy and I've seen us achieve two excellent victories in Europe whilst playing some very good, effective football. That wont last forever and I'm sure we'll be in the Championship again before too long, pining for the days of Tommy Wright, Stevie May, Murray Davidson etc but that's football. I'll still be showing up at McDiarmid Park (if we've not moved) every second week to watch it regardless. It'd be nice for the Scottish leagues to return to former glories, with all of our teams competing regularly in the latter stages of European competition, but times have changed. Bigger countries have bigger crowds and tv audiences which mean people pay more to broadcast their matches. They can then afford better players, which pulls them further ahead of us. Such is life. With regards to the overall quality, I don't think it's gone down that much. Obviously we've got less financial clout than we once did (and also without a basket case Rangers) and we're having to unearth gems from scrap heaps/rely on players from youth squads more. Surely though that'll help the leagues in the long run? The younger, mostly Scottish, guys will develop earlier, get their moves and the National side will improve. With any luck, teams in Scotland will get transfer fees, like United and ourselves have managed this summer. Or is that overly simplistic? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEADOWXI Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-29126451 Rangers win right to appeal Imran Ahmad cash freezeAnd the saga drags on..........think the best way to make money if involved with Rangers / Sevco / Them is not to have TUPEd over a la Elbows or Fat Salary and keep the money rolling in but work for their laywers....... Their legal bills for the last 2 or 3 years could probably run a few lower league clubs for years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityDave Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Not at all there has been a steady decline in the standard of football in the country over a number of years and this slide has not been helped by having no Rangers in the top league. Other clubs supporters have not flocked back to the grounds in the way some thought they would and the figures given out as official attendances are scandalous and surely nobody takes them seriously anymore. Your own club are top of the league. That's great but this present ICT are no better than the team that Butcher had playing so well a few seasons. The National team are doing well now under a proper football manager and that is the only positive i can see in the game in Scotland at the moment There is no one answer to this but the steady decline is comparative with the rise in standards in other countries. Lack of investment and finances within the game here are the main reason for any decline, the rich get rich and the poor get poor on the European stage and now we see our top club falling even further behind to a point they don't even just qualify for the group stage of the CL while clubs and bigger clubs at that but not as successful in the past have overtaken us. There are now more clubs playing in Europe from many more countries than there ever were, there is simply more competition and wealthier competition at that which we struggle to compete with. Its doubtful had Rangers not gone bust it would have made any difference. Problem with us is expectation levels are based on past glories and successes and now the real order in European football is slowly being established over the years, it just seems like we are in more of a decline than we really are. We had an easy ride in the past and it gave us an unrealistic impression that Scotland has one of the top leagues in Europe when in reality those clubs punched well above their weight and got away with it more often. But then there is always a temptation to look back into the past like the 80's and early 90's and see it as some golden age, but back then we had some embarrassing results its just people tend to forget about it, almost like why we always think our childhood summers were always sunny. One of the criticisms I aim at the game here is no one at top level will talk our game up or fight our corner, its all about negativity. The SFA fail constantly to promote and sell our game even to the people in our own country. Almost like we accept and embrace failure as part of being Scottish. Being realistic is not accepting failure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Not simplistic at all, decent post, even if I think you are a little too accepting of our current standing within Europe, other small countries do considerably better than us at both levels, although I admit the national teams performance over the last year certainly deserves some optimism, I am glad that other teams are winning cups etc. I would love to see this continue to all competitions, the monotony of a 2 horse is good for nobody and like you I would like to see some progression in Europe instead of the negative acceptance that is all to often on display here. I agree with that too - I probably am a bit negative regarding our potential in Europe. The last two seasons, we've managed to knock out Rosenborg and Luzern (both teams were miles ahead of us technically, but didn't have our heart) then lost to two teams that weren't as good in Minsk and Spartak Trnava. Spartak wasn't so tough to take as they were a decent, albeit beatable team. Minsk were absolutely fucking rotten and if we'd gotten through that game, we would've drawn Standard Liege - a team who at that time were probably about on a par with Rosenborg. If we'd been more positive at home in both of those ties, then I think we would've got the results required to get through. There is definitely a lot to be positive about in the domestic game though. Take out the title race as that's a forgone conclusion anyway, the Premiership teams do try and play positive attacking football. There's been one 0-0 draw in the Premiership so far this season (Inverness at home to Dundee) and only 4 matches have been draw (all, bizarrely, involving Dundee). The Championship, which is always an exciting league, has a potential 3 horse race (realistically 2 as Hibs look shite). Both of those sides would at least have fancied a tilt at the top 6 this year with their respective squads. I know you guys have suffered a horrendous 2 or 3 years now. If that turns around (which I think it will eventually) hopefully the bitterness on both sides can subside and we'll be left with a better, more competitive league. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Rangers fans on this thread have proved they are glory hunters, despite all previous protestations. More worried about outside perceptions than anything else. Really, what non vain person cares about what others think of them/their club/their club's league? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Refreshing post for the BRALT. Much of that horrendous 2-3 years has been self inflicted, a few years ago at least their was an optimism, a hope that it could be a fresh start with proper governance (with the money raised, it certainly should have), this made us blindly accept the promises of those running us. Now it is just a numbness many of us feel, the support is divided but I suspect many still hope that we are eventually run by owners that actually care about the football club, at the moment that looks very unlikely. Refreshing maybe but in the wrong forum certainly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityDave Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Rangers fans on this thread have proved they are glory hunters, despite all previous protestations. More worried about outside perceptions than anything else. Really, what non vain person cares about what others think of them/their club/their club's league? Never at any point in the 30 or so years I have followed football have I heard from a Rangers fan or any of their fawning media lackies that when they have on occasion had some success in Europe its for the benefit of Scottish football, no its always been about Rangers and getting one over on Celtic. All of a sudden they seem to care about what other clubs fans think and are quick to point out those supporters club's failings (forgetting those smaller clubs earned their place). They just need to remember what broke Rangers in the first place and why they thought they could try and run with the top clubs in Europe, they certainly didn't spunk away all that money just to pip Celtic to the Scottish title all those times. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing (2) Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 The swamp is glorious on the first page or so as they think imrans cash has been unringfenced http://forum.followfollow.com/showthread.php?t=1022268 Then it sinks in.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Never at any point in the 30 or so years I have followed football have I heard from a Rangers fan or any of their fawning media lackies that when they have on occasion had some success in Europe its for the benefit of Scottish football, no its always been about Rangers and getting one over on Celtic. All of a sudden they seem to care about what other clubs fans think and are quick to point out those supporters club's failings (forgetting those smaller clubs earned their place). They just need to remember what broke Rangers in the first place and why they thought they could try and run with the top clubs in Europe, they certainly didn't spunk away all that money just to pip Celtic to the Scottish title all those times. Sir Craig of Whyte gambled on the CL and killed Rangers now the Rangers fans want every other club to roll the dice and blow it. One can only imagine that they see this as the only way to catch up with us. I've enjoyed our journey to the top, have you? I wonder if the bears are having as good a time as we have. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookies Love Me Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I'm reading from some rangers supporters that the Scottish Leagues are in decline, and some mention the lack of rangers in the top league is a contributory factor. FFS! What I want to know from them is, apart from sell-out crowds at Parkhead and ibrox for the derby games. What the f*ck else could they bring to the Scottish Premier division? Also, how could they have an improving effect on the rest of game in general and for all other teams finances? It angers me when a club that can't even manage themselves properly (along with their supporters and the main stream journalists) think that they are the "magic bullet" for the rest of Scottish football. Sorry. But, I don't f*cking think so! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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