AberdeenBud Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Pity Joey is just doing what he is accusing others of, spinning figures to suit his argument agenda, while I am sticking to the facts. The company DID make a very healthy profit over an 18 month period. The debt WAS reduced to £18.1M The club could not find a buyer due to to the £100M + Tax bill (other liabilities) hanging over its head, this Tax bill turned out to be bollix. You did take umbrage at my description of RFC as being in a parlous financial state(ala a basket case) in 2011. Regardless of the tax case RFC would still have been liquidated. This was a fait accompli, well admin was anyway, as soon as McCoist failed in Europe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romeo Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I assume sevco fans will be down at the stadium letting those in charge know that the playing & coaching staff should be cut instead of the other workers on very low wages? Right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aofjays Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Pity Joey is just doing what he is accusing others of, spinning figures to suit his argument agenda, while I am sticking to the facts. The company DID make a very healthy profit over an 18 month period. The debt WAS reduced to £18.1M The club could not find a buyer due to to the £100M + Tax bill (other liabilities) hanging over its head, this Tax bill turned out to be bollix (yeah I know appeal no 95 is still under way) "The joint administrators have adjudicated on these claims and confirmed to HMRC that for voting purposes, their claim will be admitted for voting purposes at £94,426,217.22." The majority of that figure relates to the old company's use of Employee Benefit Trusts (EBTs), on which HMRC claimed unpaid tax and penalties in excess of £49m. Now if you ignore the EBT money completely, real Rangers still owed over 45 million to the tax man. They were totally screwed. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Now if you ignore the EBT money completely, real Rangers still owed over 45 million to the tax man. They were totally screwed. Seems rather high to me, when Rangers entered admin it was with a tax bill of around £9m pus the WTC of around £3m, did it really jump to £45m in that time? D&P did drag things on and allowed the unpaid tax to escalate and make liquidation easier but that still sems a bit OTT to me. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 You did take umbrage at my description of RFC as being in a parlous financial state(ala a basket case) in 2011. Regardless of the tax case RFC would still have been liquidated. This was a fait accompli, well admin was anyway, as soon as McCoist failed in Europe. Well if you take away the Tax case it would have been unlikely that Whyte would have been able to buy the club and the fraud would have been avoided. I may be reading your post wrong as i haven't read back yet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 He just will not take the decisions needed, McGregor has been brilliant but Jig is still the weak link in that defence, I don't really rate Zal but at least he is a proper defender, Jig should be on the bench and coming on for Daly around 65 mins, Boyd needs dropped, it obvious to everyone. McCulloch should not be played in defence, he needs to play Macleod in the middle and make a decision regarding Black and Law. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 2 and a half years and over 6,000 pages in and we still have fantasists claiming that Rangers were in a decent financial state before Craig Whyte's takeover for £1 (Yes, £1!). Throughout this thread these claims have been debunked time and time again yet the usual suspects keep coming back with the exact same 'evidence' to 'prove' that they are correct. Youngsy's magical £18million bank debt being comparable to £53million total liabilities being a favourite of mine, trotted out repeatedly even though he has been told his comparison is utter bollocks again and again. Anyway, to show how brilliant a state Ranger's accounts (© Tedi) were in to June 2010 I have calculated Altman's Z'-score. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altman_Z-score#Z-score_estimated_for_private_firms To sum up it is a test on the likelihood of bankruptcy within the next two years. You put figures from the accounts into a formula and depending on the result you can decide if a company is going tits up or not. I got taught this in advanced finance so it isn't some pie in the sky theory, it is derived through genuine statistically based analysis and used in the finance industry. Having done the calculation Ranger's score at 30th June 2010 was 0.91. Anything below 1.23 is a firm in distress, between 1.23 and 2.9 is a grey area, and above 2.9 the company is safe. So accordingly Rangers were a basket case before Craig Whyte took over. I apologise in advance for actually using some knowledge of finance and expect irrelevant (in isolation), cherry picked numbers to be plucked out of the accounts in reply. An educated and erudite TELT. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.j Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Whilst the company was being ran by a fraudster, sorry anything that happened after he took over cannot be really be counted, things would have been entirely different if the club had been getting run by a genuine buyer non fraudster type person. No evidence to suggest that be the case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Whilst the company was being ran by a fraudster, sorry anything that happened after he took over cannot be really be counted, things would have been entirely different if the club had been getting run by a genuine buyer non fraudster type person. Suppose that's where we'll have to agree to disagree as it's unprovable, although we do know the club wasn't in good financial health. I would say the evidence strongly backs the view that Whyte took over the controls of a runaway train that he had little influence over. Having someone like Whyte in charge might actually have helped prolong the clubslife for a few months? Perhaps we'll never know, or at least not for a wee while yet until some of the spivs(I would include Murray in that) start talking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 FFS the Ibrox giants were fighting for us all against her majestics tax chunts who tried to get Johnny Foreigner to pay tax to the UK govt... Red(white'n'blue) Clydeside indeed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Agreed! We should have gave up, and I thought we had, mentioning Rangers after Gilmour embarrassed himself and the club during the Armageddon debacle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.j Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 The previous 18 months getting ran at a healthy profit while reducing debt is all the evidence you need. This shite again? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.j Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Not a bad likeness there Tedi, I'm more of a terrace label guy tho, grown up from the band/logo tshirts days. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preacher Casey Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Posts like this really piss me off. I agree the cancer comment was way too far. I think he should edit the post and leave it at that. Youngsy is one of the best Rangers posters on P&B if not THE best..i know damned by faint praise ..There was a Kilmarnock poster who came away with one of the most sickening posts i have read on here about 'a c**t with cancer' when talking about the late great Sandy Jardine and sorry if i am doing you a disservice here but i don't recall you clambering to be one of the first on here to condemn him. I don't give a f**k what pisses you off. So because you consider Youngsy is the best The Rangers supporter on here,it is acceptable for him to wish cancer on someone, as long as he edits it. Rangers fans,offended by everything,ashamed of nothing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Fitlike Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 The previous 18 months getting ran at a healthy profit while reducing debt is all the evidence you need. Rangers / Healthy Profit?? you are having a giraffe, mate never happened. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 An educated and erudite TELT. From Wikipedia lol -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 It is high and aofjays provided the evidence in his own post 'HMRC claimed unpaid tax and penalties' Thats what i get for skimming the post but it was an Aofjays post i suppose. Perhaps we can agree on this. St Mirren should really stop mentioning Rangers when explaining away their own financial difficulties. "Like many other fellow clubs we have found this a very difficult year financially with the SPFL having no title sponser and the top league away support having been rather disappointing, not assisted by Rangers FC not being present." But shouldn't it be booming? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No8. Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I don't give a f**k what pisses you off. So because you consider Youngsy is the best The Rangers supporter on here,it is acceptable for him to wish cancer on someone, as long as he edits it. Rangers fans,offended by everything,ashamed of nothing. I posted what i thought about Youngsys post. So you have no comment on the 'c**t with cancer' post by your fellow Killie poster? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preacher Casey Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I posted what i thought about Youngsys post. So you have no comment on the 'c**t with cancer' post by your fellow Killie poster? So I am responsible for what other Killie fans post? If he did say that then he is out of order, but as long as he edits it ,then it is acceptable according to you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No8. Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 But shouldn't it be booming? It is booming...booming i tell ye. St Johnstone knocked European giants Rosenborg out of Europe!!!!111!!!11!!!!!!!!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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