Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[AberdeenBud]

Think you know my views on this but I'd argue that just shows how pig ignorant they are tbh and bears no reflection on our game.

I think this whole thing being drawn to some form of conclusion, legal and/or otherwise, should be a good thing for most parties involved.

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

Yes I understand fully that you have to account for future liabilities that will be incurred and of course importantly future income, the point being that they balance each other out and appear in the accounts year after year after year, it really is not debt....the actual debt is clearly shown in the accounts, its not hidden in anyway and the debt had clearly reduced.

Liabilities are obligations to transfer resources out of your company in the future. Whether there is an asset in the balance sheet too is of no consequence, you still owe it. Specifically back to the 2010 accounts then, where is this matching deferred income asset? Clue: it isn't there.

[thelegendthatis]

In no way am i defending Murray but how the fucking hell did Murray do more damage than Whyte? Murray may well have been the root cause but Whyte and his co-conspirators had this lined up for a fraudulent takeover, knowing full well that admin and liquidation was their aim, in order to rid themselves of all debt, the EBT case being the main one, and then sit back after the assets were purchased, intent on making millions for themselves, not the club.

There seems to a group on here trying to pile everything on poor Mr Whyte

Whyte appeared from Motherwell via Monaco with wealth off the radar. His deal to get his hands on Rangers involved putting his pound coin on the table plus getting Murray off the Lloyds hook - to some extent, by lobbing some £18million over the wall at them. The bank borrowing was cleared and left as a debt to one of Whyte's companies. Probably seen as 'tax planning' at the time. OK he had to scam that amount off Ticketus. So without knowing all the machinations of the deal but it is clear Whyte had to hand over a hell of a lot more than £1.

Let's have a look at Murray the 'Rangers man' as some say. Murray bought Rangers for £6 million. He was a beneficiary of an EBT which netted him £6.3 million. Add to that his salary, pension and expenses paid by Rangers while the Ibrox big cheese. I can guarantee he wasn't on the minimum wage during his time there.

So in summary Murray got the club for nothing and drew tens of millions out of the club during his time. Whyte spent £18million to get the club (OK it was money he didn't have).

We know which one is the smarter. But do we know which one was the biggest chancer? Which one exploited the Rangers fans most effectively and profitably?

I am sure Tedi the renowned C.A. and hopefully C.T.A. will be able to fill in my blanks (when the tutorial finishes) and let us know how much Murray took out of Rangers quite legally during his reign?

Edited November 20, 2014 by thelegendthatis

[Ken Fitlike]

I think 4 of the main protagonists being arrested and charged with extremely serious offences alongside one of the box office stars having a high court arrest warrant issued on him is big news.

However I also believe that the longer this goes on the worse it reflects on Scottish Football as a whole, while many a diddy fan may believe that things are somehow now better, I think you would struggle to find many outside of Scotland who would agree with this, some of the comments coming out of England in the run up to the recent international show exactly what an irrelevance Scottish football has become.

nah - just The Rangers.

Who always were an abomination.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

How far this, and to whom this all leads is fascinating. Hopefully certain people within Scottish football authorities are dragged in. Interesting times ahead.

Most decidedly this. What rangers did reflected on rangers and, let's be honest, surprised very few of us. The collusion by those at high levels in the governing bodies was shameful, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if Brother Ogilvie was the only one to benefit from the odd brown envelope.

I wonder if we can arrange with youngsy that Craigie Boy doesn't succumb until he's finished naming names?

[thelegendthatis]

Just checking out my profile where I have a wee fat guy with a black and red scarf being blown up. This was from the day of some Rangers fans deciding to raise money for the "Rangers Fighting Fund" by creating the black and red scarves.

I see their website still exists. (I was surprised) banner at the top says they have less than 1,000 scarves (sorry, scarfs) left. And will not be ordering any more.Their link to the Fighting Fund doesn't work.

How much did they raise? How many did they sell. Could I buy one?

Edited November 20, 2014 by thelegendthatis

[aofjays]

Most decidedly this. What rangers did reflected on rangers and, let's be honest, surprised very few of us. The collusion by those at high levels in the governing bodies was shameful, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if Brother Ogilvie was the only one to benefit from the odd brown envelope.

I wonder if we can arrange with youngsy that Craigie Boy doesn't succumb until he's finished naming names?

So that's why he's wishes cancer on him! Can't have DM dragged into this now can we?

[Guest]

Surely when Craig Whyte gets sent down the whole of the BRALT and indeed Scottish football should be united in celebration.

I generally couldn't give a toss what happens to him.

I'm just glad what happened to Rangers, happened.

It's just a crying shame a newco spawned.

Fun viewing from the side until that goes tits up though.

[dave.j]

Murray bought Rangers for 6 million via a bank loan secured against rangers. It wasn't even his own money.

[bennett]

You don't say....

[TheLip69]

I think 4 of the main protagonists being arrested and charged with extremely serious offences alongside one of the box office stars having a high court arrest warrant issued on him is big news.

However I also believe that the longer this goes on the worse it reflects on Scottish Football as a whole, while many a diddy fan may believe that things are somehow now better, I think you would struggle to find many outside of Scotland who would agree with this, some of the comments coming out of England in the run up to the recent international show exactly what an irrelevance Scottish football has become.

Scottish Football was an irrelevance long before Ranger went belly up.

The OF shafted the whole country in their efforts to secure CL money for them and them alone.

I still take an interest in Motherwell's results and whenever I am back home I try to ensure it's when we are at home.

As to the rest it's of no interest, the league is a foregone conclusion and has been for years.

You weakened the league so much you failed to realise it would only serve to weaken you as well.

From having two CL entraqnts our cHampions are now reduced to playing 3 qualifying rounds just to get into the CL group stages.

There are only two clubs to blame for that.

[thenolly]

I wonder how many directors past and present will be checking out what countries have no extradition with the UK before checking out trip adviser in case Craigy boy sings

[GreenockRover]

I wonder how many directors past and present will be checking out what countries have no extradition with the UK before checking out trip adviser in case Craigy boy sings

Bet you a croissant or ten that Chucky ain't answering his phone or door right now !

[WeeHectorPar]

I think 4 of the main protagonists being arrested and charged with extremely serious offences alongside one of the box office stars having a high court arrest warrant issued on him is big news.

However I also believe that the longer this goes on the worse it reflects on Scottish Football as a whole, while many a diddy fan may believe that things are somehow now better, I think you would struggle to find many outside of Scotland who would agree with this, some of the comments coming out of England in the run up to the recent international show exactly what an irrelevance Scottish football has become.

How can Scottish football be an irrelevance when Sevco, part of Scottish football, has 500 million fans all over the world?

[flyingrodent]

The warrant issued today for Craigy relates to his ongoing civil dispute with Ticketus. I imagine Scotland will get him after the court in London is finished with him, assuming that anyone does.

At this point, it's probably worth noting that the fallout from Rangers' decade-long dodgery is still costing every tax-paying citizen in the country a bundle. Serious fraud requires vast amounts of time and effort to investigate from HMRC, police, forensic accountants and prosecutors, and all of those people have to be paid to do it. The cost to the public purse just of Rangers' stonewalling of HMRC alone is likely to be ridiculously high.

This is before we spot that, if all of these coppers, accountants and lawyers weren't tied up trying to sort out the shytefest abomination of Dead Rangers, they would likely all be doing something more useful to the public good.

Between the tax revenues dodged to the bills unpaid to the ongoing legal costs, which will have to be paid for a long time yet, Dead Rangers have already shafted the nation for a small fortune and it's costing us all a bomb to work out just how badly.

Thanks, Oldco.

Edited November 20, 2014 by flyingrodent

[WhiteRoseKillie]

How can Scottish football be an irrelevance when Sevco, part of Scottish football, has 500 million fans all over the world?

Maybe he means "what's left of Scottish Football"?

What's up with everybody's favourite bigot, anyway? he still gets listed as active, but doesn't share his wisdom any more...

[WeeHectorPar]

Maybe he means "what's left of Scottish Football"?

What's up with everybody's favourite bigot, anyway? he still gets listed as active, but doesn't share his wisdom any more...

Are you telling me that it was only Oldco which had 500 million fans and Sevco doesn't?

[haggis pakora]

At this point, it's probably worth noting that the fallout from Rangers' decade-long dodgery is still costing every tax-paying citizen in the country a bundle. Serious fraud requires vast amounts of time and effort to investigate from HMRC, police, forensic accountants and prosecutors, and all of those people have to be paid to do it. The cost to the public purse just of Rangers' stonewalling of HMRC alone is likely to be ridiculously high.

Cry me a fucking river.

f**k HMRC.

[K Dodd]

There seems to a group on here trying to pile everything on poor Mr Whyte

Whyte appeared from Motherwell via Monaco with wealth off the radar. His deal to get his hands on Rangers involved putting his pound coin on the table plus getting Murray off the Lloyds hook - to some extent, by lobbing some £18million over the wall at them. The bank borrowing was cleared and left as a debt to one of Whyte's companies. Probably seen as 'tax planning' at the time. OK he had to scam that amount off Ticketus. So without knowing all the machinations of the deal but it is clear Whyte had to hand over a hell of a lot more than £1.

Let's have a look at Murray the 'Rangers man' as some say. Murray bought Rangers for £6 million. He was a beneficiary of an EBT which netted him £6.3 million. Add to that his salary, pension and expenses paid by Rangers while the Ibrox big cheese. I can guarantee he wasn't on the minimum wage during his time there.

So in summary Murray got the club for nothing and drew tens of millions out of the club during his time. Whyte spent £18million to get the club (OK it was money he didn't have).

We know which one is the smarter. But do we know which one was the biggest chancer? Which one exploited the Rangers fans most effectively and profitably?

I am sure Tedi the renowned C.A. and hopefully C.T.A. will be able to fill in my blanks (when the tutorial finishes) and let us know how much Murray took out of Rangers quite legally during his reign?

Is it not just a fact that CW was pretty thick and got duped by SDM. Murray saw him coming and thought, this thick twat will do. What did CW gain from buying Ragers? not a lot. He then became extremely paranoid and started recording all his conversations. He knew what was coming. And the evidence he holds now will condemn a fair few people. He was a scapegoat, nothing more. Just ask Charlotte Fakeover. A few arses are twitching.

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

I'm afraid that's not quite true (and both of you are doing my nut-in with this 'amateur accountants open night') Yes, I AM upset .

The simple way of looking at the transaction is this.

Punter pays his season ticket cash;

This creates a balance sheet ONLY entry.

Dr Bank (asset)

Cr Deferred Revenue(liability)

The obligation this creates is NOT to pay for players wages etc (the club could be completely amateur and have no payments to make). The obligation is for the company to allow the punter to watch a (future) game or games.

When the game is performed, then the following transaction takes place.

Dr Deferred Revenue (reducing liability)

Cr Revenue (P&L income)

Notice not one of these items relates to 'paying players etc'.

Paying players wages would have the following transaction;

Cr Bank (reducing cash on balance sheet)

Dr Players wages (P&L expense)

I hope this helps.

Yours

aDONis

P.S. none of this stops the fact that DeadRangers accounts were a mess before Nookie appeared. Some of the ratios would be shocking, particularly quick ratio/acid test (with or without the Deferred Revenue in the equation).

And while you are thankfully here and obviously an expert can we maybe go back to the initial point? I picked up on the fact that some were using an £18million bank debt figure in 2010 and comparing it to a £53 million liability figure at the time of admin. The claim was Craig Whyte had added a fortune to the debt during his time in charge. I called this out as pish as they weren't comparing like with like. Would you agree? Also they were using this £18million figure to represent the total amount Rangers owed. Would you also agree they were not correct to do so?