Njord Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 There's only one 'r' in b#####d But there's no 'f' in 'rangers' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim999 Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I don't think there's sufficient will to look at it again.Obviously, the authorities don't wish to, for all the reasons we're familiar with.There's also a different attitude among fans this time, meaning that other clubs needn't bother too much either.You only need to look at the thread about it on the Premier League forum on here, to see that most people can no longer be arsed with this. It really is left to we obsessives to fight the good fight.It's a similar thing with the media. The Daily Record has mounted a campaign, by pretending that this is about giving medals to players who lost cup finals. We've had the Telegraph inventing worried chairmen of other clubs who think they'd need to fork out bonuses.Even Sportsound which has given the issue attention, has had good guys like Tom English and Richard Gordon referring to their boredom with it, while an ignorant fool like Roger Mitchell is given a platform and no challenge.This will blow over and Rangers will keep their titles. The game we love will have been ill served. I am pretty sure the SFA, a lot of club's board members, media guys etc want the whole thing to just blow over. Some of this will be out of personal fear from halfwits but mainly the hope for them will be that fans and in the main, supposed "keyboard warriors" will get bored and shrug then go back to paying for football as they have done for years. They just want the old firm back and f**k the other teams. For me it goes to show the contempt folk who run our game, comment on our game and make a living from our game have for the fan. The wee arsehole Roger Mitchell dismissed the notion out of hand that some fans might just think that they've been conned. He started babbling on with some what about Russia type shite. There is a chance if nothing happens fans of other clubs might just say "f**k this, I'm out" doing damage to their own club and the game itself. I do feel sorry for some Rangers fans and I get why some on here are clinging to any small technical reason to back their club(s) but the fact remains Rangers behaviour reeked and everyone not connected to them knows in any other sport, anywhere in the world then stripping of wins would be a certainty. I've played in Junior and amateur sides where teams have been docked 3 points for a wrong address on a signing form as the player was then apparently incorrectly registered but then it's easy coming down hard on lads just wanting a game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) In every sport all over world, cheating means the removal of honours won. There's no debate about the possible effect of the cheating, or whether the athlete/team would've won without the cheating. As soon as evidence of cheating is uncovered, the honours are removed, no ifs or buts. Cheating = the opposite of sport. That's except for viewers in Scotland. I pretty much agree. Cracking last line by the way.The difficulty however, is establishing that what happened, amounted to cheating. I think it can be classed that way as players were deliberately registered in deceitful terms, as Rangers wished to mask a payment scheme that if exposed might well present them with a tax bill that would undoubtedly see the club liquidated. I don't think that such a conclusion is necessarily entirely obvious or automatic though. The focus needs to be on registration. If it's on spending beyond means for success, Rangers are not alone. The fact that LNS has already addressed registration in an apparently binding way, is a problem. Edited November 14, 2015 by Monkey Tennis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beermonkey Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I am pretty sure the SFA, a lot of club's board members, media guys etc want the whole thing to just blow over. Some of this will be out of personal fear from halfwits but mainly the hope for them will be that fans and in the main, supposed "keyboard warriors" will get bored and shrug then go back to paying for football as they have done for years. They just want the old firm back and f**k the other teams. For me it goes to show the contempt folk who run our game, comment on our game and make a living from our game have for the fan. The wee arsehole Roger Mitchell dismissed the notion out of hand that some fans might just think that they've been conned. He started babbling on with some what about Russia type shite. There is a chance if nothing happens fans of other clubs might just say "f**k this, I'm out" doing damage to their own club and the game itself. I do feel sorry for some Rangers fans and I get why some on here are clinging to any small technical reason to back their club(s) but the fact remains Rangers behaviour reeked and everyone not connected to them knows in any other sport, anywhere in the world then stripping of wins would be a certainty. I've played in Junior and amateur sides where teams have been docked 3 points for a wrong address on a signing form as the player was then apparently incorrectly registered but then it's easy coming down hard on lads just wanting a game. I said this 3 years ago, i haven't been to a game since, i also know of 2 others who've done the same. But....As long as folk are turning up week in-week out at most grounds, then f**k-all will ever change in scottish football. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) I am pretty sure the SFA, a lot of club's board members, media guys etc want the whole thing to just blow over. Some of this will be out of personal fear from halfwits but mainly the hope for them will be that fans and in the main, supposed "keyboard warriors" will get bored and shrug then go back to paying for football as they have done for years. They just want the old firm back and f**k the other teams. For me it goes to show the contempt folk who run our game, comment on our game and make a living from our game have for the fan. The wee arsehole Roger Mitchell dismissed the notion out of hand that some fans might just think that they've been conned. He started babbling on with some what about Russia type shite. There is a chance if nothing happens fans of other clubs might just say "f**k this, I'm out" doing damage to their own club and the game itself. I do feel sorry for some Rangers fans and I get why some on here are clinging to any small technical reason to back their club(s) but the fact remains Rangers behaviour reeked and everyone not connected to them knows in any other sport, anywhere in the world then stripping of wins would be a certainty. I've played in Junior and amateur sides where teams have been docked 3 points for a wrong address on a signing form as the player was then apparently incorrectly registered but then it's easy coming down hard on lads just wanting a game. Yes, there is an absolute contempt towards supporters.I think a massive part of it is how OF centric our game became in the last twenty years. The narrative emerged as they won all the trophies between them and got big crowds, that this was the only way our game could really function. Those clubs became seen as central to generating money. The fact that they got to keep all that money became lost amidst a self serving belief that what suited the OF, must via some trickle down, be good for the rest of us. This narrative is now so rooted that for the depressingly large numbers who follow OF clubs and for the many who give such matters little independent thought, it's become a received truth that things will be better when the duopoly returns. You're also right about how seriously player registration issues are traditionally treated in our game. The variance now evident in the treatment of different clubs for different offences is now patently absurd. Edited November 14, 2015 by Monkey Tennis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaintee Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I pretty much agree. Cracking last line by the way. The difficulty however, is establishing that what happened, amounted to cheating. I think it can be classed that way as players were deliberately registered in deceitful terms, as Rangers wished to mask a payment scheme that if exposed might well present them with a tax bill that would undoubtedly see the club liquidated. I don't think that such a conclusion is necessarily entirely obvious or automatic though. The focus needs to be on registration. If it's on spending beyond means for success, Rangers are not alone. The fact that LNS has already addressed registration in an apparently binding way, is a problem. Binding on who? Who agreed that it was binding and final? The SFA executive decided when the chairman had an EBT it was final and can undecide. The SFA may not have been able to make that decision anyway without consultation with it's members. I don't think the SFA should be crowing to loudly about what it "decided" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaintee Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 LNS verdict was final, no going back. Then why are the new club appealing it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Binding on who? Who agreed that it was binding and final? The SFA executive decided when the chairman had an EBT it was final and can undecide. The SFA may not have been able to make that decision anyway without consultation with it's members. I don't think the SFA should be crowing to loudly about what it "decided" I honestly don't know, which is why I said "apparently binding". I don't know how that works or how robust any such agreement could be. Right now though, it looks like a hurdle of sorts. Our governing bodies have no appetite for clearing hurdles, maybe even small ones. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaintee Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Ah, double jeopardy. Things change, Scots Law did away with that a wee while ago. Sevco hoping it wont stick like it did to Oldco, presumably. Double jeopardy only applied to criminal cases 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
printer Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 There's only one 'r' in b#####d I only had one 'r' in it. Two 't's though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Then why are the new club appealing it It's the sflp who are attempting to deviate from lns's ruling. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Not really it's called an appeal, happens all the time, especially when new evidence (that EBTs were illegal) has come out. Did the commission's terms of reference allow for the possibility of an appeal? Also, you have to have a basis for an appeal - clearly the CoS verdict isn't 'new evidence'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Good old sporting integrity, everyone's favourite buzzwords and the green n grey yins will lap this up. Let the scheming and plotting commence. Pursuant to this rule, clubs are not allowed to change their legal form or structure in order to obtain a licence, simply by 'cleaning up' their balance sheet while offloading debts onto a new entity that might potentially go bankrupt – thus harming creditors (including employees and social/tax authorities) as well as threatening the integrity of sporting competition. What the CAS said about changing legal form to shed debt including social taxes based upon UEFAs rulebook. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim999 Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Yes, there is an absolute contempt towards supporters.I think a massive part of it is how OF centric our game became in the last twenty years. The narrative emerged as they won all the trophies between them and got big crowds, that this was the only way our game could really function. Those clubs became seen as central to generating money. The fact that they got to keep all that money became lost amidst a self serving belief that what suited the OF, must be via some trickle down, be good for the rest of us.This narrative is now so rooted that for the depressingly large numbers who follow OF clubs and for the many who give such matters little independent thought, it's become a received truth that things will be better when the duopoly returns.You're also right about how seriously player registration issues are traditionally treated in our game. The variance now evident in the treatment of different clubs for different offences is now patently absurd. The contempt for fans is rife and sadly even the national team boss is scathing of fan opinion. I know there are rockets on every forum but compare even this one to a Daily Record phone in and it's minimal. I don't post often but regularly visit and there are some really sharp posters from all clubs on P&B who make more sense than most sports journalists who in the main are conflicted. The application of rules across the board is a huge issue. The theory that all rules are the same from amateur to semi pro to the top league is absolutely correct but when fear and/or greed and self interest is involved just fire the rule book out the window. How can Ogilvie for example be impartial? It's gonna take a really brave man or men to bring the Rangers saga to a close but I can't see an end for a long time to come. Worse still if/ when Rangers end up in the top league I'm pretty sure the feeling in and around the grounds will be nastier than ever. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Was the punishment LNS handed out final and binding or is it just the bits the bears like that are classed as "no-getsy's backsy's"? Also why is a mechanism required to revoke registrations? Take a pen, preferably a red one and write void across them. Done. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Nederlander Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) Rangers wished to mask a payment scheme that if exposed might well present them with a tax bill that would undoubtedly see the club liquidated. Whilst your posts have been of a high standard over the last few pages MT I can't let that wee slip go without highlighting it. Tsk etc. Edited November 14, 2015 by Ned Nederlander 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Ah, double jeopardy. Things change, Scots Law did away with that a wee while ago. . Oh ffs another Lionel Hutz... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakes Pal Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 It is astonishing just how many lawyers and legal experts we have in this wee country. Who would have guessed that we have so many people clued up on the intricate and convoluted world of tax law. We are truly blessed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Njord Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 It is astonishing just how many lawyers and legal experts we have in this wee country. Who would have guessed that we have so many people clued up on the intricate and convoluted world of tax law. We are truly blessed. Truly blessed ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Was the punishment Every time I hear them moan saying "We've been punished enough" Considering everything that has happened, they really did get off lightly. Being allowed to waltz back into the senior league set up (Airdire or Gretna didn't get this option), a transfer ban while they played in part time league. Thats it really. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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