welshbairn Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 For the final time this can not be done, setting up a 2nd company to stop your creditors getting there money IS ILLEGAL, or pheonixing as its know, this is yet more spin coming from Duff & Phelps to feed to the press to keep them on side and be seen to be working every avenue. Stalling tactics again I'm playing devil's advocate here, but could Duff and Phelps not argue that it is in the creditors interest to keep the football business going while a CVA is agreed? The bricks, mortar and player assets could be worth a lot less than the Rangers brand in the future, and CVA's are often paid off over years of future income. Leeds did more or less the same thing, with the HMRC fighting a CVA but eventually giving in.. If a significant amount of money is paid to the Oldco by the Newco for the assets while a CVA is negotiated, I don't think the Newco would be seen by the courts as asset stripping or pheonixing.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makepeace Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 No priority just their percentage of the money due compared to others, but when HMRC realise that the pot is emptying and their cut is diminishing they will wind the company up and stop it trading effectively freezing all assets and finances at that point. This will be coming soon as it is aparent that the club cannot trade its way legally out of its debt wonder what will come first, them being liquidated or this thread reaching 1000 pages...? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) Only for re-structuring and not when in administration Not according to this and many other sites. edited to add - including this blog written by one of the "experts" who has appeared on BBC Scotland Newsnight talking about the subject Edited May 9, 2012 by Mr X 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenolly Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I'm playing devil's advocate here, but could Duff and Phelps not argue that it is in the creditors interest to keep the football business going while a CVA is agreed? The bricks, mortar and player assets could be worth a lot less than the Rangers brand in the future, and CVA's are often paid off over years of future income. Leeds did more or less the same thing, with the HMRC fighting a CVA but eventually giving in.. If a significant amount of money is paid to the Oldco by the Newco for the assets while a CVA is negotiated, I don't think the Newco would be seen by the courts as asset stripping or pheonixing.. HMRC were paid in full by Leeds, I believe it was X% up front then the rest over Xyears and personally guaranteed by a member of the board. The Revenue man will always get his full amount or strip the business to get maximum value for tax payers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 That Miller bloke is being more unreasonable by the minute. Clearly the fantastic Rangers support had nothing to do with his decision not to get involved. Your comment though about it being thrown out from the start shows two things: the police thought that was their intention, and the CPS thought they could prove it. The CPS being told they couldn't prove murderous intent doesn't mean it wasn't there. Are you seriously saying that if this case was brought to Miller's attention (after the barrage of abuse from others of the group he was trying to help) that it wouldn't have made him think twice ... because the intent wasn't to actually kill? Who the f*** are the CPS? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pansypotterthedirtyrotter Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Not according to this and many other sites. edited to add - including this blog written by one of the "experts" who has appeared on BBC Scotland Newsnight talking about the subject from your link It is then possible for the new company to be transferred or sold to the creditors as part of a voluntary arrangement. this seems to say that the new company can be given to creditors to satisfy a cva. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooper Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 from your link this seems to say that the new company can be given to creditors to satisfy a cva. Creditors as asset strippers of the Newco? That would be a hoot! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) Not according to this and many other sites. edited to add - including this blog written by one of the "experts" who has appeared on BBC Scotland Newsnight talking about the subject Have to say that Maureen Leslie from MLM is one of the few to have come out from this whole business with any credit. She's been just about the only expert wheeled onto the TV that's not allowed herself to be guided into giving the answers they WANT to hear ("everything's going to be fine and Rangers will win the title next year!") and stuck rigidly to giving out the correct info ("they are light years away from getting a CVA, so all other questions are irrelevent until that's sorted.") Who the f*** are the CPS? The Crown Prosecution Service Edited May 9, 2012 by WaffenThinMint 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 from your link this seems to say that the new company can be given to creditors to satisfy a cva. Seems so. I took can to be the important word though. Although, this does lead us back round again to Craig Whyte and his, as yet unconfirmed, preferred creditor status. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenolly Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Not according to this and many other sites. edited to add - including this blog written by one of the "experts" who has appeared on BBC Scotland Newsnight talking about the subject Let's put this in simple terms I Borrow £500k and buy a house worth that value, and only pay the interest on the loan. Against my assets I borrow another £500k chasing the dream but squander it on sex,drugs&rock n roll I only now earn £30k a year before tax (self employed so house doubles as my office) Realising I'm broke and going to lose it all I Go for bankruptcy, during this procedure after declaring all my assets and debt I decide to transfer all my assets to my wife for a quid and say I'll pay my creditors (the bank) back at £30 a week as I no longer have any assets. Next stage up in front of judge looking at a stretch for fraud. If the assets had been transferred prior as part of a debt restructuring of the company fair enough but not after they have been declared on the administration writ. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araminta Moonbeam QC Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 1336575835[/url]' post='6217610']Rumour is the new bidders are Joe Lewis, Daniel Levy and the ENIC group. They plan to run Rangers as a feeder club for Spurs reserves.:rolleyes: Yes, but are they Catholic Jews? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Let's put this in simple terms I Borrow £500k and buy a house worth that value, and only pay the interest on the loan. Against my assets I borrow another £500k chasing the dream but squander it on sex,drugs&rock n roll I only now earn £30k a year before tax (self employed so house doubles as my office) Realising I'm broke and going to lose it all I Go for bankruptcy, during this procedure after declaring all my assets and debt I decide to transfer all my assets to my wife for a quid and say I'll pay my creditors (the bank) back at £30 a week as I no longer have any assets. Next stage up in front of judge looking at a stretch for fraud. If the assets had been transferred prior as part of a debt restructuring of the company fair enough but not after they have been declared on the administration writ. From the MLM blog As we’ve seen, administrators have the power to create subsidiary companies and to transfer the whole or any part of the business and assets of the company in administration to that newly created subsidiary. You seem like an intelligent guy, so I havent bothered to highlight the important bits 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 The Crown Prosecution Service What are they involved in a Scottish criminal case for? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarreZ Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 For the final time this can not be done, setting up a 2nd company to stop your creditors getting there money IS ILLEGAL, or pheonixing as its know, this is yet more spin coming from Duff & Phelps to feed to the press to keep them on side and be seen to be working every avenue. Stalling tactics again It is for the people already in possession of the company. Its not the same when its people who were not connected with the company creating a new company and is pretty common place in business. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Time for Neil to re-read his notes on the role of ethics in a business environment, I feel: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarreZ Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Let's put this in simple terms I Borrow £500k and buy a house worth that value, and only pay the interest on the loan. Against my assets I borrow another £500k chasing the dream but squander it on sex,drugs&rock n roll I only now earn £30k a year before tax (self employed so house doubles as my office) Realising I'm broke and going to lose it all I Go for bankruptcy, during this procedure after declaring all my assets and debt I decide to transfer all my assets to my wife for a quid and say I'll pay my creditors (the bank) back at £30 a week as I no longer have any assets. Next stage up in front of judge looking at a stretch for fraud. If the assets had been transferred prior as part of a debt restructuring of the company fair enough but not after they have been declared on the administration writ. Not the same thing at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 What are they involved in a Scottish criminal case for? Don't ask me, I was simply answering your question who are the CPS! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 David Whitehouse: "On a core trading model, there isn't a cash deficit unless you invest in players or unless you assume that there's going to be a deterioration in gate receipts." Wait a minute...are "players" not quite important to a football team. No, because they can just get rid of the ones they have and sign....... Oh wait, I see a flaw. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenolly Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 From the MLM blog You seem like an intelligent guy, so I havent bothered to highlight the important bits It's no where near as simple as how various blogs and reporters are making out, possible yes in this case no. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelegendthatis Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) Not all administrators are good guys. http://www.accountan...ely-reprimanded One comment "Andronikou became well-known as a joint administrator of Portsmouth Football Club." I think infamous would have been a better adjective. Tens of thousands of Pompey fans also felt his conduct to be "manifestly inappropriate" , too. Posted by: Chris, 04 May 2012 | 17:49 Edited May 9, 2012 by thelegendthatis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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