Gaspode Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Am I the only one who didn't swallow the 'prince Albert' bit? (no jokes please, too obvious). I thought it much more likely that Ellis was making this up to make it look like he had a genuine reason for introducing Whyte to the board - he came across as a right slimy character & I thought he was just using this to make himself appear in a better light (Gee, look folks, he duped me too!) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magee84 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Celtic used the EBT scheme ONCE... when they signed Juninho... quickly realised it was hot potato and scrapped it... juninho lasted barely four months at Celtic anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herman Hessian Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I thought the Joanna Lumley piece was puerile, childish and totally unnecessary 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackie The Staggie Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 We have one half of the Blue Knights on Newsnight....this should be fun 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Eh, what? I was a bit disappointed with that tonight, I suppose my expectations were too high you can only cover so much detail on the myriad of wrongdoing in so many areas relating to Rangers itself and the various links to outside bodies. I hope that "various organisations" are going to look in detail at the aspects that might interest them (Im interested in the holding of hands between Murray and Scottish banking establishment) Given the timings of the new season I'd hope that both the SPL and the SFA suspend Rangers until proper investigation of seemingly evident breaking of rules designed to running a fair business The surface has been scratched, will we balk at uncovering the detail? me too........If that could be proved they should be killed off and any offspring sterilised like Hitler's relative to prevent the blood line continuing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Have to say, the programme was really cringey - repeated shots of empty chairs with microphones on them, the equating of those involved with the club as football players at the start of the programme, As for the alegations, lots of it was old news, like Banstead which was in the daily record months ago. If it winds up the berrs though, its worth it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 We have one half of the Blue Knights on Newsnight....this should be fun Aye it will. He was a diredtor of the club with a background in a financial matters, yet he didn't think to flag up the EBT issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GirondistNYC Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 1337809117[/url]' post='6266617']no EBT's only work if you kid on they are discrentionary. does anyone honestly believe bankers just suddenly decide one day to give their staff a nice wee suprise tax free loan? [sIGH] I see your problem - you're aware EBTs were widely used, assume discretionary payments are rare in business, and thus everyone must be just as culpable as Rangers. However, annual bonuses which really are discretionary are very, very common in high compensation fields. With a few exceptions, a large chunk of investment bankers have always received bonuses as a large chunk of their total comp. And as I heard many, many times from acquaintances in 2008-2010 those bonuses really are discretionary in the sense there is absolutely no legal obligation to pay it. Lots of people in the City and Wall Street found their actual bonus to be far, far less than the worst case scenario they had ever imagined. Lots found out thy got no bonus right before getting fired Bankers accepted this because they have a great deal of practical ability to move if they get screwed and think they can make up a bad year. There is generally a huge turnover in banking and other fields right after bonus season because people leave if they are unhappy. Football players, on the other hand, sign binding multi-year contracts and can't f**k off to play in another league because they didn't get a bonus. They also have short careers that can end at any time via injury. They are the last people on Earth who would want 40% of heir comp in truly discretionary bonuses. Which is why he smart money was always on side letters - now the BBC has seemed to verify hey exist (although I old be much happier if hey had hown something akin o the leaked draft). As to why this exists - finance professionals can MOVE. There have been a number of bizarre schemes to reduce taxable amounts payable by the City (I recall back in the day bonuses being paid in Turkish Lira with a currency derivative attached so the gap caused by predictable inflation was taxed at a lower rate). The justification generally is the structure is so complicated it won't be abused except by the narrow subset of people who will f**k off to Geneva or New York if pressed overmuch and who pay massive taxes on other amounts at an individual and firm level anyway. Thy get shut own over time when they begin to be systemically abused. This may be a bad justification, but it's a justification. If Rangers were paying football players as football players expect and need to be paid, they implement departed fom the minimal logical justification behind allowing EBTs as a shady and contingent grey area. Rangers was the equivalent of he member of the Animal Libration Rights movement living in a housing scheme in Hamburg who claims he can keep a hunting rifle because the law allowers hunters in rural Bavaria to have one. Probably shouldn't have the loophole at all, but it logically doesn't apply at all to you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magee84 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Paul Murray sliming away in his seat there.. Duff and Phelps have questions to answer he says..... hey, no shit 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 So, 'the gang of ten' did everything by the book and the old firm cheated. Shock horror. I know. Get the OF to f**k. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roverthemoon Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Anyone questioning the rigour in the BBC investigation should read Andrew Marr's comments to the Leveson Inquiry today. He said that moving from being a print journalist to a BBC journalist meant he had to find two sources for a story rather than one and was subject to a far higher rigour from the BBC than he was in the print world. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roverthemoon Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Paul Murray pretty unconvincing. He's talking but not saying anything. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Celtic used the EBT scheme ONCE... when they signed Juninho... quickly realised it was hot potato and scrapped it... juninho lasted barely four months at Celtic anyway. If it was cheating, then it was cheating. If my crude calculations are correct it suggests Rangers were perhaps leveraging 4%-5% extra wage spending a season via EBTs (i.e. routing 10% of payments through EBTs saving about 4/10ths in tax). That's worse than just using it for Juninho, but it doesn't absolve you entirely. Did Celtic win any trophies while Juninho was at the club? Was it definetely just him? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 "did it ever occur to you something funnny was going on" wisnny me honest guv *squirm* 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 This may be a bad justification, but it's a justification. If Rangers were paying football players as football players expect and need to be paid, they implement departed fom the minimal logical justification behind allowing EBTs as a shady and contingent grey area. saying it was a nod and a wink to bankers but not football clubs is a weak argument imo. they should never have existed in the first. the tax system badly needs reform. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkmyster Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Celtic used the EBT scheme ONCE... when they signed Juninho... quickly realised it was hot potato and scrapped it... juninho lasted barely four months at Celtic anyway. Sure I heard also that Celtic agreed to pay HMRC monies owed from this and settled it there and then as they knew it was wrong/illegal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placidcasual Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Employee Benefit Trusts - £47 million The Big Tax Case - £75 million Rangers Football Club - £1 Graham Spiers' greetin' faced pus on Newsnight Scotland - Priceless. There are some things in life money can't buy. For everything else there's Duff and Duffer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerstly Borate Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Paul Murray pretty unconvincing. He's talking but not saying anything. He did allude to the BBC having more dirt than that broadcast tonight 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozam76 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 f**k me, he squirmed his way through the EBT question did he not? Did Paul Murray really just say that the board acted in a proper fashion? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roverthemoon Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Paul Murray strikes me as another Whyte/David Murray type of guy but without the balls to chance his arm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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