Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Silvio Tattiescone]

A mate's just driven past Murray Park and says there's "hunners" of press there - cameramen, satellite tv lorries, the whole shebang.

Maybe they've made a big-name signing?

[ribzanelli]

Maybe they've made a big-name signing?

German striker Jurgen Bustyakuntz?

[MarkYardley'sNo.1Fan]

What is it we (all non-OF fans) are actually hoping to get out of all this? No matter what happens, at the end of this there will be some sort of Rangers in existence who will at the very least be accepted back into the SFL and within 3 years will be back in the SPL with low/no debts. In the meantime we'll have a 1 horse race for the title and less money to go around the other teams. The only possible positive to come from this could be the potential for the remaining SPL diddies to bully Celtic into accepting some sort of league reconstruction and/or prize money redistribution. Even if this was possible, the diddies don't all agree on league reconstruction and gaining a few hundred grand extra in prize money isn't going to result in the likes of Aberdeen launching a title bid. Am I missing something?

A quick question for the financial experts on the forum.... Does Rangers current plight indicate that Celtic are actually a considerably bigger club than their rivals? If Rangers are potentially up to £80m in debt, and are apparently losing £10m a year, doesn't this mean they simply don't generate enough income to sustain a squad on a par with Celtic's? We tend to think of the OF being in their own financial tier, with Hearts/Hibs/Aberdeen below them and then the rest of us. But perhaps Celtic and Rangers are now in two separate tiers? I hope not, I'd rather a 2 horse race than a 1 horse race.

[HibeeJibee]

What is it we (all non-OF fans) are actually hoping to get out of all this? No matter what happens, at the end of this there will be some sort of Rangers in existence who will at the very least be accepted back into the SFL and within 3 years will be back in the SPL with low/no debts. In the meantime we'll have a 1 horse race for the title and less money to go around the other teams. The only possible positive to come from this could be the potential for the remaining SPL diddies to bully Celtic into accepting some sort of league reconstruction and/or prize money redistribution. Even if this was possible, the diddies don't all agree on league reconstruction and gaining a few hundred grand extra in prize money isn't going to result in the likes of Aberdeen launching a title bid. Am I missing something?

I think a lot of non-Rangers fans are...

... experiencing untrammelled joy at the opportunity to laugh at the humiliation of a club who normally lords it over the rest.

... enjoying the rare chance to see a Goliath humbled, and it's fans pressed

... hoping that somehow or another they won't bounce back

... hoping that the demise of Rangers will mean the ultimate demise of Celtic

... hoping for at least 3 years where only 1 club dominates instead of 2

So there's reasons enough, tbh.

[H_B]

But perhaps Celtic and Rangers are now in two separate tiers? I hope not, I'd rather a 2 horse race than a 1 horse race.

Yes and no. there is a pretty sizeable gap between the two in terms of income and wage bill. Celtic are a much bigger club than Rangers and have been for several years now. Pretty much since Dick Advocaat left to be honest and McLeish arrived.

However if;s not the kind of gap that makes competition impossible. At least, not until Rangers are fucked, like now. A 10 million plus difference in wages between the two. A massive advantage to every Celtic manager of the last decade, but as we have seen, not one that makes winning the league a certainty.

[sergie's no1 fan]

German striker Jurgen Bustyakuntz?

I heard it is Serbian sensation Themoneysresting Inanotheraccountyavic

[Owsley]

What is it we (all non-OF fans) are actually hoping to get out of all this? No matter what happens, at the end of this there will be some sort of Rangers in existence who will at the very least be accepted back into the SFL and within 3 years will be back in the SPL with low/no debts. In the meantime we'll have a 1 horse race for the title and less money to go around the other teams. The only possible positive to come from this could be the potential for the remaining SPL diddies to bully Celtic into accepting some sort of league reconstruction and/or prize money redistribution. Even if this was possible, the diddies don't all agree on league reconstruction and gaining a few hundred grand extra in prize money isn't going to result in the likes of Aberdeen launching a title bid. Am I missing something?

A quick question for the financial experts on the forum.... Does Rangers current plight indicate that Celtic are actually a considerably bigger club than their rivals? If Rangers are potentially up to £80m in debt, and are apparently losing £10m a year, doesn't this mean they simply don't generate enough income to sustain a squad on a par with Celtic's? We tend to think of the OF being in their own financial tier, with Hearts/Hibs/Aberdeen below them and then the rest of us. But perhaps Celtic and Rangers are now in two separate tiers? I hope not, I'd rather a 2 horse race than a 1 horse race.

In a strictly parochial sense, I am hoping every single Rangers fan in Hamilton is going through the emotional ringer, and that it lasts for many months. Longer term, I would hope it is many, many years before Rangers get back, if indeed they ever do, to qualifying for the Champions League group stages. Lack of that money should ensure a domestic Rangers that may win the odd cup but will fail regularly against the smaller teams in the SPL. I hope one day that might even include my team again. Ok, I'm pushing it now.

[vikingTON]

What is it we (all non-OF fans) are actually hoping to get out of all this?

Hope you say?

1) Liquidation of the current club

2) Buying of Ibrox by a non-committed third party, preferably HMRC, who sell it off for a supermarket, shite council housing, who cares. Worst case alternative: keep it and charge the phoenix club a huge amount of rent for being dodgy tenants.

3) Splitting of the Rangers phoenix clubs between their relative Judean People's Fronts so that none gains overwhelming support from the knuckledragging base.

4) In the SPL, re-negotiation of terms to end the current voting system, with prize money and TV money distributed on an equitable basis. Hell, a proportion of the away fans' money going to the away team wouldn't go amiss either.

5) Any FC Rangers 2012 to have to fight it out with other non-league applications at the bottom of the SFL, pretty much homeless, and a shadow of the club they once were.

I obviously don't expect to get all of this, but I certainly think there are tangible gains to be made from the situation, particularly 1), 4) and the last part of 5). With a small bit of luck this process should utterly cripple Rangers.

Edited February 29, 2012 by vikingTON

[welshbairn]

Need.....................some.................news....................scandal...................perfidy...............humiliation..............can't ........cope...without..might...try..injecting...popcorn..

[vikingTON]

Yes and no. there is a pretty sizeable gap between the two in terms of income and wage bill. Celtic are a much bigger club than Rangers and have been for several years now. Pretty much since Dick Advocaat left to be honest and McLeish arrived.

However if;s not the kind of gap that makes competition impossible. At least, not until Rangers are fucked, like now. A 10 million plus difference in wages between the two. A massive advantage to every Celtic manager of the last decade, but as we have seen, not one that makes winning the league a certainty.

This is why, given half the chance, I think Celtic would stick the knife into any transfer of membership scheme by Rangers. They have the chance to vote themselves dominance, whereas if Rangers walk back into the league relatively unscathed then Celtic will have to go back on the cycle of spending and debt. With that, there's no guarantee of success and no guarantee that Celtic wouldn't fall into ruin next time round.

[MarkYardley'sNo.1Fan]

Yes and no. there is a pretty sizeable gap between the two in terms of income and wage bill. Celtic are a much bigger club than Rangers and have been for several years now. Pretty much since Dick Advocaat left to be honest and McLeish arrived.

However if;s not the kind of gap that makes competition impossible. At least, not until Rangers are fucked, like now. A 10 million plus difference in wages between the two. A massive advantage to every Celtic manager of the last decade, but as we have seen, not one that makes winning the league a certainty.

I never bought into this notion that somehow Walter Smith was operating on a tight budget compared with his various Celtic counterparts. There was a table on here the other week which, iirc, showed that in the last 5 years Rangers had actually paid out a similar amount to Celtic in transfer fees but had received a lot less in transfer fees coming in.

O'Neil certainly had an advantage over McLeish (in wage bill at least), but Celtic only just lost those two titles. IIRC one was on goal difference (Dunfermline ) after their run to the UEFA Cup final and then who can forget them throwing it away at Fir Park . You're right though, having that kind of financial gap doesn't make the title a certainty, but theoretically those two titles could have easily gone the other way and we'd have had 5 consecutive titles for Celtic.

[Ross.]

I never bought into this notion that somehow Walter Smith was operating on a tight budget compared with his various Celtic counterparts. There was a table on here the other week which, iirc, showed that in the last 5 years Rangers had actually paid out a similar amount to Celtic in transfer fees but had received a lot less in transfer fees coming in.

O'Neil certainly had an advantage over McLeish (in wage bill at least), but Celtic only just lost those two titles. IIRC one was on goal difference (Dunfermline ) after their run to the UEFA Cup final and then who can forget them throwing it away at Fir Park . You're right though, having that kind of financial gap doesn't make the title a certainty, but theoretically those two titles could have easily gone the other way and we'd have had 5 consecutive titles for Celtic.

You also have to factor in the impact of the EBT's. It's possible that Rangers were paying more to players than Celtic on a salary basis, but paying less out as a club due to the tax implications of the mechanisms they were using. Very hard to do a straight comparison until all that is cleared up.

[pozbaird]

As a non-OF fan, what I hope to get from this is perfectly simple. Fair play. Whatever happens to Rangers, it should be the same as what would happen to any of the other SPL clubs if they were in the same situation. My fear in all of this is some sort of shenanigans going on to ease their pain - for no other reason than 'they are Rangers'.

If their fate is liquidation - whatever happens then, in regard to SPL, SFA, or SFL involvement, should be exactly the same as if the authorities were dealing with Dunfermline, St Mirren, Kilmarnock. If 'them being Rangers' affects TV deals and other 'side issues' - tough. We need to deal with it, same as we did with Setanta going tits-up.

Rangers are indeed a Scottish institution, but here's the news - so is my own club. 135 years strong. We've won cups, played in Europe, reached finals, had international players, and are every bit as much a Scottish institution as Rangers. The fact that they have 45,000 more fans in their stadium matters not a fcuk in regard to any price to be paid for years of cheating, debt-dodging, and tax evasion.

Edited February 29, 2012 by pozbaird

[MarkYardley'sNo.1Fan]

I think a lot of non-Rangers fans are...

... experiencing untrammelled joy at the opportunity to laugh at the humiliation of a club who normally lords it over the rest.

... enjoying the rare chance to see a Goliath humbled, and it's fans pressed

... hoping that somehow or another they won't bounce back

... hoping that the demise of Rangers will mean the ultimate demise of Celtic

... hoping for at least 3 years where only 1 club dominates instead of 2

So there's reasons enough, tbh.

Sorry, I didn't word my post particularly well. I meant 'hoping' in the realistic sense. A few weeks back I was hoping St. Mirren would make the top 6 and believed it was possible, at the start of the season I was hoping we'd win the league but I didn't believe it was possible.

There seems to be a genuine belief on here that this is going to hurt Rangers in the long term and that somehow we'll all benefit. But looking at it rationally we're getting our hopes up for nothing, they'll be back bigger and stronger than the rest of us (excluding Celtic) in no more than 3 years, and in the meantime we'll have less money and still no chance of winning the title.

I want to believe but I just can't, THE BIG HOOSE WILL STAY OPEN

[vikingTON]

There seems to be a genuine belief on here that this is going to hurt Rangers in the long term and that somehow we'll all benefit.

It is almost certainly going to hurt Rangers in the long term. I can't think of any club that has come back stronger from administration, at least within Scottish (and quite probably, British) football. Even on basic creditworthiness this is bad news for them.

[pozbaird]

It is almost certainly going to hurt Rangers in the long term. I can't think of any club that has come back stronger from administration, at least within Scottish (and quite probably, British) football. Even on basic creditworthiness this is bad news for them.

Motherwell seem to be doing just fine.

[glensburgh]

As a non-OF fan, what I hope to get from this is perfectly simple. Fair play. Whatever happens to Rangers, it should be the same as what would happen to any of the other SPL clubs if they were in the same situation. My fear in all of this is some sort of shenanigans going on to ease their pain - for no other reason than 'they are Rangers'.

If their fate is liquidation - whatever happens then, in regard to SPL, SFA, or SFL involvement, should be exactly the same as if the authorities were dealing with Dunfermline, St Mirren, Kilmarnock. If 'them being Rangers' affects TV deals and other 'side issues' - tough. We need to deal with it, same as we did with Setanta going tits-up.

Rangers are indeed a Scottish institution, but here's the news - so is my own club. 135 years strong. We've won cups, played in Europe, reached finals, had international players, and are every bit as much a Scottish institution as Rangers. The fact that they have 45,000 more fans in their stadium matters not a fcuk in regard to any price to be paid for years of cheating, debt-dodging, and tax evasion.

ignoring the club history bit, agree 100%.

have a greenie

edited for typo.

Edited February 29, 2012 by glensburgh

[vikingTON]

Motherwell seem to be doing just fine.

Their profit/loss per season is largely dependent on their on-pitch success. Hardly a bastion of financial security, yet they are probably the best example.

Edited February 29, 2012 by vikingTON

[MarkYardley'sNo.1Fan]

It is almost certainly going to hurt Rangers in the long term. I can't think of any club that has come back stronger from administration, at least within Scottish (and quite probably, British) football. Even on basic creditworthiness this is bad news for them.

Motherwell are heading for Europe for the 4th time in 5 years if I'm not mistaken and they also made the Scottish Cup final last season. Even Dundee and Livingston are now safe 1st Division clubs which is probably about their level. I'd expect Dundee to get promotion in the next couple of seasons.

[vikingTON]

Motherwell are heading for Europe for the 4th time in 5 years if I'm not mistaken and they also made the Scottish Cup final last season.

Is that based on financial security, or on a natural cycle of success? Not to mention the mismanagement of Hearts and Hibs which have played a major role in weakening competition.

I'd expect Dundee to get promotion in the next couple of seasons.

Dundee will further cut their budget next season, due to financial pressures in the First Division. Livingston are back to, or more accurately, didn't stop spending money they don't have, in a desperate attempt to compete at a reduced level.