Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Bearwithme]

How much has Whyte increased the debt by (and from) since he took over?

There's the Ticketus deal of £20-odd million.

There's the tax etc not paid - about another £20 million.

There's the long list of other creditors to be looked at.

Could be the thick end of £50 million, maybe even more.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Bearwithme

[Mark Connolly]

@alextomo FACT: RFC's problems have very little to do with CW. He played small part after the damage - no matter how Glasgow papers spin it

So if it wasn't Craig Whyte, then it must have been the person who owned them before.

But that was....no...it can't be.....surely not.....not Sir Dave......NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[Macshimmy]

According to a poster on Rangers Media, of all places*:

From 5.6 and 5.12 of the report, Ticketus advanced £25.3m cash,

From 5.9 in the report we have already repaid Ticketus £8m,

so in cash terms they are owed £25.3 less £8m = £17.3m.

If we agree to repay them £10m over a period of time then they are only out of pocket by £7.3m.

* judging by their careful analysis, I'd say they were an imposter, so I'll keep their identity secret ;-)

[Zeus]

£93 million pounds, I wonder how many schools have went without books, or hospitals without a full staff to fund Rangers?

[Mark Connolly]

£93 million pounds, I wonder how many schools have went without books, or hospitals without a full staff to fund Rangers?

Can I go with the obvious answer of "too many"?

[eightmile]

The DR also says that if the BK win the bid then the Ticketus deal will be ripped up and they will get £10 million over 9 years on an interest free basis.

If I was an investor with Ticketus I would be raging!!! Imagine your company giving away £27 million that you think will provide a good investment over 4/5 years, but instead you only get just over a third of it back with NO PROFIT!!!

The way this whole shambles has been handled is a disgrace, with even the local newsagent, nevermind the police and ambulance service owed money.

Indirectly you are an investor in Ticketus. They are funded by the vc company Octopus who are established as an Enterprise Investment Company and therefore. Ticketus are funded by a tax avoidance scheme approved by the Government. 'Your tax' funds the company that funds TIcketus

To quote their website. "Enterprise Investment Schemes can help investors generate an attractive return by delivering a range of tax benefits:

• 30% upfront income tax relief if the investment is held for three years
• Potential Capital Gains Tax deferral (up to the amount of the gain invested)
• Tax-free growth
• Up to 100% IHT relief (provided funds remain invested at the time of death)

So doubly shafted alas.

[Zeus]

Can I go with the obvious answer of "too many"?

In this case the obvious answer is the correct answer.

[Gaz]

There's the Ticketus deal of £20-odd million.

There's the tax etc not paid - about another £20 million.

There's the long list of other creditors to be looked at.

Could be the thick end of £50 million, maybe even more.

Right. So if the total list of creditors is £134m as has been quoted, and Whyte has increased this by £50m, then before this it was £84m... and this was manageable?

[WaffenThinMint]

By jove, I think they're fucked!

Drooper, Rangers are gangbanged, never mind merely fucked!

[Bearwithme]

Right. So if the total list of creditors is £134m as has been quoted, and Whyte has increased this by £50m, then before this it was £84m... and this was manageable?

£75m of that estimated debt is the maximum possible from the tribunal. That could be zero and, whatever it might be, it isn't an actual debt yet and so obviously wasn't when Whyte took over.

[Musketeer Gripweed]

There's the Ticketus deal of £20-odd million.

There's the tax etc not paid - about another £20 million.

There's the long list of other creditors to be looked at.

Could be the thick end of £50 million, maybe even more.

But he paid off the £18M to Lloyds back in the days when we all used to think £18M was a lot of money.

[Bearwithme]

But he paid off the £18M to Lloyds back in the days when we all used to think £18M was a lot of money.

That debt was shifted to Whyte's company rather than being wiped out.

[WaffenThinMint]

2) You're right of course. Just not paying your bills on time is not a criminal offence.

It is if it means you have been trading whilst insolvent, which Rangers clearly have been.

[NorthBank]

There's the Ticketus deal of £20-odd million.

There's the tax etc not paid - about another £20 million.

There's the long list of other creditors to be looked at.

Could be the thick end of £50 million, maybe even more.

But surely CW did not increase the debt by £20 via Ticketus. The existing debt merely transferred to Ticketus as Lloyds were paid what they were owed. Maybe more was borrowed than was paid to Lloyds but the whole £20 could not be considered the fault of CW?

Sorry. Others posted my thoughts before me!

Edited April 6, 2012 by NorthBank

[Bearwithme]

It is if it means you have been trading whilst insolvent, which Rangers clearly have been.

I suggest you make a report to the appropriate authorities if you believe that.

[ankles]

I'm i the only one that thinks that heads should roll at HMRC. Who the hell allowed Rangers to owe so much tax without pulling them up and taking them to court .At a time when we have radio adverts telling joiners and electricians to be good boys and declare any money made on the side,the're letting Rangers run up millions. What a fucking joke. As soon as any company owes ,say 500 grand in tax, then HMRC should be crawling over their arses

Edited April 6, 2012 by ankles

[WaffenThinMint]

I suggest you make a report to the appropriate authorities if you believe that.

Think you'll find this will be the route HMRC will now be going along after yesterday's revelations

[Bearwithme]

Think you'll find this will be the route HMRC will now be going along after yesterday's revelations

Yeah, I'm there was loads of stuff that came as a shock to HMRC yesterday.

[Granny Danger]

It is if it means you have been trading whilst insolvent, which Rangers clearly have been.

It is OK to trade whilst insolvent so long as it is deemed to be possible to trade out of the insolvent position and/or to seek the protection of administration once the ability to trade out of the insolvent situation becomes impractical. With the big tax case not yet decided and the wee tax case only reacently 'agreed' it may be deemed that Rangers followed the rules. But all these things are judgement calls.

[Musketeer Gripweed]

That debt was shifted to Whyte's company rather than being wiped out.

I would need to look at that balance sheet and list of creditors again that was posted yesterday but I didn't see a figure of £18M being owed to Whyte. It would have stood out like a sore thumb. So what you are saying is that another creditor of £18M needs to be added to those already staggering figures?