pollymac Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Regarding the Phoenixing of der orkenkind and parachuting straight into the SPL - have a look at this little snippet from the SPL rules: H5 If any Club in the League ceases to operate or to be member of the League for any reason, its playing record in the League may be expunged and the number of relegation places from the League shall be reduced accordingly The 'may' part is clearly only referring to playing record, otherwise it would state 'it may have it's playing record expunged and the number...', so the rules are quite clear on what happens here - Dunfermline, as things stand, are saved from relegation. This leaves us with the grey area surrounding promotion of Ross County, who could argue that precedence for ground-sharing between two clubs within the SPL has already been set and apply for either a waiver of the rules to allow further development or to become tenants of ICT (which is in the rules). All of this has to be done by 31st March, so the timing for a Phoenix would be quite critical - if Ross County have already been successful in applying for a waiver, then the rules are quite explicit that there would then be no place for them (the PhoenixCo). Or Falkirk or Dundee could win the 1st. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin M Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Just organize a 4 leg Glasgow Cup final. Problem solved. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Regarding the Phoenixing of der orkenkind and parachuting straight into the SPL - have a look at this little snippet from the SPL rules: The 'may' part is clearly only referring to playing record, otherwise it would state 'it may have it's playing record expunged and the number...', so the rules are quite clear on what happens here - Dunfermline, as things stand, are saved from relegation. This leaves us with the grey area surrounding promotion of Ross County, who could argue that precedence for ground-sharing between two clubs within the SPL has already been set and apply for either a waiver of the rules to allow further development or to become tenants of ICT (which is in the rules). All of this has to be done by 31st March, so the timing for a Phoenix would be quite critical - if Ross County have already been successful in applying for a waiver, then the rules are quite explicit that there would then be no place for them (the PhoenixCo). Or Falkirk or Dundee could win the 1st. Provided Rangers were liquidated, and their league share was not transferred, but instead simply lapsed. And provided rules weren't adjusted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 o I couldn't really give a f**k about how their feelings or the travails of their particular career choice. They take the wage they take the rage. Including that of the armchair bores saying how crap HMRC perform - the same ones that went bleating on for years about how Rangers could do what they like and get away with it, how the Establishment/Masons/Illuminati would ensure they've never be taken to court, never be put into administration, etc. History is littered with events everyone 'knew for a fact' would never happen - such as the SNP taking over Holyrood or any party there getting a majority of the seats. Bottom line is HMRC have succeeded in forcing Rangers - a club synonymous with thinking itself about the law time after time - into administration. They're still facing a battle to ensure justice is done, but no one in their wildest dreams ever thought they'd get this far - including you.. Looks to me that despite the obstacles in their way they've done bloody brilliantly up to now, despite what you may claim. Could you do any better in a job where your own boss keeps changing the rules to make it harder to do the job he's employing you at taxpayers expense to perform? If so, explain? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phanni tikklar Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The thing that annoys me, are all the papers and pundits saying, scottish football needs a strong rangers and celtic. And we ahould be helping rangers.. If rangers or celtic for that matter got offered a place in the english premier league they'd be off, and wouldn't give a second thought to the state of scottish football, the clubs left behind, or any current tv/sponsorship deals.. So f**k them.. Hope they have years of pain ahead 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollymac Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Provided Rangers were liquidated, and their league share was not transferred, but instead simply lapsed. And provided rules weren't adjusted. Erm, well yes, a Phoenix would be in the event of liquidation, otherwise it's only a continuation of the club/company as opposed to a phoenix. The share cannot be transferred willy-nilly by a receiver or administrator, it has to be directed by the SPL after a qualified resolution is passed - the rules that should direct such a resolution are stated in my previous post. If the rules were adjusted then numerous fans would walk away from football, not to mention the very high likelihood of court action by the relegated/not promoted club. I would also suspect that Uefa would take a particularly dim view of a mid-season reworking of the rules setting up a de facto cartel and believe me, this would certainly be brought to their attention. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollymac Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The thing that annoys me, are all the papers and pundits saying, scottish football needs a strong rangers and celtic. And we ahould be helping rangers.. If rangers or celtic for that matter got offered a place in the english premier league they'd be off, and wouldn't give a second thought to the state of scottish football, the clubs left behind, or any current tv/sponsorship deals.. So f**k them.. Hope they have years of pain ahead There's a really good post elsewhere on the interwebs debunkuing this myth, showing how the leagues have flourished when one or both the Old Firm floundered - think back to last gasp title wins in 86 and 91 and two Scottish teams playing semi-finals in Europe in 84. Best case scenario, IMO, is they get liquidated and do not come back (not to the SPL at least) and Celtic downsize, with no more player purchases and relying more and more on their youth system (which they've been giving massive attention to, but will take a while to really start working). Unfortunately, Celtic have built up a very young squad capable of playing together for another 10 years or so, barring predators taking players off their hands. The only consideration in my opinion is that we get the co-eff going again in a sustainable manner and financial doping is not the way to do that, whether it be from multiple share issues or by dodging tax and underwriting debt using parent companies. Lastly, I hope to see someone other than Rangers get a game against Benfica or similar in next season's CL non-champions qualifier then a wee jaunt in the Europa League. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The thing that annoys me, are all the papers and pundits saying, scottish football needs a strong rangers and celtic. And we ahould be helping rangers. They say this because so many of them are Axis of Evil fans, they couldn't give a flying f**k about the game. What they're terrified of admitting to is that if Rangers go under, the Scottish game will be more attractive than it's ever been before to investors, because there's suddenly a far more open playing field c/o the elimination of the club that seemed to be allowed a special set of rules all to itself to ensure its ludicrous domination of the game with partners in grime Celtic. Make no mistake about it, "Mad Vlad" was only ever guilty of saying out loud what others in Europe have been muttering to one another for years - the Scottish game is bent as a 9 bob note. If Rangers go kaput (big 'if'), don't be too surprised to find Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs for starters suddenly finding the moneymen starting to tire of English football (which is starting to go the same way our own game did in terms of ludicrous over-domination by a micro-minority of clubs) looking up north, where they could win trophies and secure European competition year after year with only a fraction of the outlay required. Scottish football is a market ripe for investment if only the incentive to do so was there. Removing Rangers would be a massive step towards that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dindeleux Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Administrators have called a press conference for 3.30pm today. I'm excited. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budmiester1 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I had a discussion with some-one this morning regarding the following scenario. Rangers go into liquidation and leave the SPL, Phoenix Rangers apply to SPL for re admittance and the rules are bent to allow this, can an ordinary punter with a bit of cash and the werewithall to do it go to the courts to block the readmittance ? is there a legal precedent which could effectively block the "new" Rangers from directly accessing the SPL ? Edited February 16, 2012 by budmiester1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I know of a least 5 rangers buses from the city centre who are knocking tickets back for utd and that's just been in a couple of days,and it was planned before that c**t went to the rags Here's hoping More rsc do the same and he gets nothing Aww fucking diddums, you won't be missed I can assure you! It's not like you bothered to turn out for a home game against us in any number anyway! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phanni tikklar Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 There's a really good post elsewhere on the interwebs debunkuing this myth, showing how the leagues have flourished when one or both the Old Firm floundered - think back to last gasp title wins in 86 and 91 and two Scottish teams playing semi-finals in Europe in 84. Best case scenario, IMO, is they get liquidated and do not come back (not to the SPL at least) and Celtic downsize, with no more player purchases and relying more and more on their youth system (which they've been giving massive attention to, but will take a while to really start working). Unfortunately, Celtic have built up a very young squad capable of playing together for another 10 years or so, barring predators taking players off their hands. The only consideration in my opinion is that we get the co-eff going again in a sustainable manner and financial doping is not the way to do that, whether it be from multiple share issues or by dodging tax and underwriting debt using parent companies. Lastly, I hope to see someone other than Rangers get a game against Benfica or similar in next season's CL non-champions qualifier then a wee jaunt in the Europa League. I think you're right. I think we would have a much better league and better attendances without the two of them.. But my point was. Rangers would'nt think twice about heading to england. So why should we(the rest of scottish football) do anything to help them 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dindeleux Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 IF Rangers go totally out the game and a phoenix club is allowed in their place then I would be officially done with the SPL and will stick to cup games only. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raith Against The Machine Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 This is a ridiculous notion, but it's just occurred to me. In the "Rangers are liquidated and Phoenix Rangers re-apply to join the SPL" scenario, presumably other clubs apply too? I'd love to see a handful of SFL clubs make a representation to the SPL. I wonder if there are any who could garner more votes than pseudo-Rangers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I had a discussion with some-one this morning regarding the following scenario. Rangers go into liquidation and leave the SPL, Phoenix Rangers apply to SPL for re admittance and the rules are bent to allow this, can an ordinary punter with a bit of cash and the werewithall to do it go to the courts to block the readmittance ? is there a legal precedent which could effectively block the "new" Rangers from directly accessing the SPL ? I don't see how you could tbh. SPL's a limited company, and can sell or transfer shares to parties as they like. If it's a transfer-of-share scenario, there would be no leaving SPL and reapplying, anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 One scenario that came to mind last night. Pre pack and sold to a phoenix. Phoenix readmitted to the SPL but on the basis that the old teams points are cancelled. Phoenix has 10 or so games to pick up enough points to survive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I know of a least 5 rangers buses from the city centre who are knocking tickets back for utd and that's just been in a couple of days,and it was planned before that c**t went to the rags Here's hoping More rsc do the same and he gets nothing Imagine that arsehole Thompson, whose club are already owed money by your club, wanting to make sure that he doesn't get shafted again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phanni tikklar Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 One scenario that came to mind last night. Pre pack and sold to a phoenix. Phoenix readmitted to the SPL but on the basis that the old teams points are cancelled. Phoenix has 10 or so games to pick up enough points to survive. Na can't see it.. Don't think it would.happen till the start of next season anyway 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingscot Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Imagine that arsehole Thompson, whose club are already owed money by your club, wanting to make sure that he doesn't get shafted again. Aye why won't he "gee us a break and help ra Rangers in the time of need". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Anyone aware of Martin Bain's incredulity status over the news? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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