dave.j Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 You'd think not, but that does appear to be the current working theory. I wonder if it'll turn out to be more complicated than that. Murray has stated that there were rumours going about that Whyte had got the money from Ticketus. Ticketus have stated the deal was done with rangers, not with Whyte. So why didn't Murray phone Ticketus, a company he had had a working relationship with since at least 2009, and ask them, have you given someone money secured against my club? Unless Murray is full of shit, and it was him that introduced Whyte to Ticketus? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottxs Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Don't know why poor Craig whyte is getting death threats. After all he saved Rangers. All you dumb ass bears claim to be the same club , all Craig done was kill the company and give you a fresh start. You may have started from the bottom and work your way back up. So really you've only got yourselves to blame for everything that's happened since 2012. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The boatman Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 A rival for shooders 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim999 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Hey Boatman. F****n hell. Where did you pull that nugget of a video from? What an absolute rocket of a man that was. That genuinely does rival shooders. Funnier still some berrrz will be raging at him for singing a version of a Liverpool song that thayme use. I'm presuming the burd in the video wasn't photogenic enough to turn round? Band Aid have a rival for Christmas no 1. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Fitlike Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 'not representative of the 'Rangers' Norn Iron support' isn't there an inter-bear conflict with her blue shirt and red/black scarf? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 The Sun have claimed to have a copy of the charge sheet and they're saying the big fraud is Craig Whyte using the Ticketus money for future ticket sales to finance the takeover, while claiming the Ticketus money was actually existing finance. That amounts to - screwing over the OldCo Rangers shareholders for large sums of cash. Which is basically an utterly illegal version of a leveraged buyout, which is what the Glazers did to Manchester United legally. The Glazers openly made Man Utd pay for their own takeover. Craigy hid it, and thus broke the law. Edit: Sharp-eyed P&Bers will note that if the Sun is correct - and they've got a good track-record on obtaining embargoed documents - Craigy is only charged with scamming some OldCo shareholders. It's not *really* an embargoed document. The Crown and the court won't provide copies of charges on petition in the way they normally will once it reaches open court. But a defence solicitor is perfectly at liberty to let you have a reporter have a look at one, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Whyte's lawyer had let it be seen by the Press. Either that or there was a friendly PF dealing with the case. It could also be that the Glasgow Courts Press Agency, who cover all the Glasgow courts on a day to day basis, have got it from someone they know and distributed the details. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romeo Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I'd wager that quite a few head bears up at the big hoose would rather sir craig wasn't up at court for this, reckon there will be quite a bit of mud slinging and a few revelations. Ally will be shitting it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The boatman Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 And if Craigy / chuckles hadn't bought them what were the alternatives? Convicted criminal Dave King? Aah, the Blue Knights....they were squeeky clean. A FORMER Blue Knight who tried to buy Rangers has been ordered to hand over £6.5million to the owners of his old firm. Paul MacKenzie was told to fork out the cash after sending a dodgy sick note to a judge in a bid to avoid appearing in court. The 43-year-old entrepreneur, who made headlines for his role in the consortium who tried and failed to buy the Ibrox club in 2012, was sued for allegedly breaking the terms of a severance package. It was claimed MacKenzie broke an agreement with his old debt recovery firm now owned by a US tycoon by working with a rival company. MacKenzie tried to avoid appearing in court on November 18 by sending a sick note claiming he was suffering from mental illness. But in his written judgment at the Court of Session in Edinburgh yesterday, Lord Doherty called it invalid. He ordered the businessman to pay the cash to Kilmarnock firm MacKenzie Hall Holdings, adding: While I recognise the sum sued for is a very large one and that the proper measures of damages is in issue, the defender has only himself to blame for not appearing at the proof. MacKenzie sold the shares in his business for more than £10million in January 2012. But the judge said he admitted he has now lost most of that through spread betting on the financial markets and through gambling. Seems it is only crooks that want to buy them. Shame. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 "Yoor day will come wee man....yoor day will come" !! "Fucking scumbag"!! "Basterd ye,,,,, fuckin' scumbag" !!! "Your gonna get everyhin' ye deserve ya wee f**k"!!! "Yer no gonna be safe anywhere ye scumbag"!!!! "Yoor DEAD..." !! Breach of the Peace... Threatening Behaviour including an explicit death threat.... Incitement to endanger person(s) through violence.... Public disorder offences.... Cops: " He'll be back on Monday OK ? Away ye go" Quality effort from Police Scotlands' Finest.... They were telling the Sons of Struth guy "he'd back on monday" if he didn't back off. I think it's pretty clear that the legal system is quite interested in the Rangers takeover, given they've arrested all the main figures involved in it. All the Murray stuff can wait for another day. Right now it's just complicating things, if the evidence is there then hopefully he'll face a future court appearance. Yon post from Youngsy never gets old. Tbf my view at the time was that Whyte was a chancer who seen the possible profit in taking over, winning the BTC and then selling up for a hefty profit. I was wrong too, as were many people if we're all being honest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmy Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Difference between what you suspect and what you can prove. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 So if the paper's are to be believed none of Whyte's actions when he "was Rangers" are going to be on the charge sheet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingrodent Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 So if the paper's are to be believed none of Whyte's actions when he "was Rangers" are going to be on the charge sheet. If you can believe the papers, correct. That's a big "if", of course. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 If true, and as you say Rodent it's a big if, that'll upset the current narrative emanating from most of Beardom at the moment somewhat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 The legal beagles are out in force today, if only Paul McC was still around he could have gave us the benefit of his experience.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 So if the paper's are to be believed none of Whyte's actions when he "was Rangers" are going to be on the charge sheet. so many different stories flying around, from the beeb The businessman faced a string of allegations during a private hearing in courtroom number three on Friday. These included claims he funded a controlling share in Rangers by selling off season tickets - after pretending to then chairman Sir David Murray he had cash of his own. It is also alleged a failure to pay outstanding VAT and National Insurance payments plunged Rangers into administration. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingrodent Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 The legal beagles are out in force today, if only Paul McC was still around he could have gave us the benefit of his experience.... Doesn't take a law degree to read the front page of the Sun a week or two ago, Benny. That paper's style guide requires articles to be written in language that an eight-year-old can understand, so there's a chance that even you could grasp it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Doesn't take a law degree to read the front page of the Sun a week or two ago, Benny. That paper's style guide requires articles to be written in language that an eight-year-old can understand, so there's a chance that even you could grasp it. You read the sun Lol... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingrodent Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 (edited) so many different stories flying around, from the beeb The businessman faced a string of allegations during a private hearing in courtroom number three on Friday. These included claims he funded a controlling share in Rangers by selling off season tickets - after pretending to then chairman Sir David Murray he had cash of his own. It is also alleged a failure to pay outstanding VAT and National Insurance payments plunged Rangers into administration. That's a bit of an odd assertion by the Beeb - they've clearly had a look at the charges and they lay them out in full, below the bit you're quoting.... The fraud charge Mr Whyte faces span from January 2010 to February 2012. Legal papers claim he pretended to Sir David Murray and the board of directors that he had "sufficient funds to acquire controlling shareholding" in Rangers. This is said to have "induced" the board to agree to the sale to Mr Whyte. He is then accused of pretending he would provide £5m to buy players, that he would pay £2.8m for a tax liability and use £1.7m to settle "agreed capital expenditure". Other allegations listed in the charge include an accusation that Mr Whyte was part of a claim to the Ticketus firm that David Murray was aware the purchase was being funded by selling season tickets. Ticketus are said to have then entered into an agreement to acquire three years of season tickets. It is further alleged Mr Whyte pretended to the SFA that he had not been disqualified from being a director leading them to believe he was a "fit and proper person" to take control of a club. The charge concludes that Mr Whyte got the shareholding by fraud and that he failed to provide contracted funds for the "continued operation" of the club and withheld payment of VAT, PAYE and NI contributions from HMRC. It is said this caused the club to enter into administration. The second charge under the Companies Act is over a number of days in May 2011. It is claimed funds from an agreement with Ticketus were used to "to meet obligations as purchaser of the club" - in particular £18.2m was paid to Lloyds Bank. The charge also states funding of the "acquisition of the controlling shareholding" was made by "selling an asset of the club" - the income from the sale of season tickets." Mr Whyte was in court after four other men appeared in the dock last week in connection with the case. David Whitehouse, 49, Paul Clark. 50, David Grier, 53, and 50-year-old Gary Withey also faced a charge of being involved in a fraudulent scheme. Mr Withey also faced an allegation under the Companies Act http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-30242028?print=true The charges as laid out in full include everything previously claimed by the Sun but don't, as far as I can tell with my limited understanding, relate at all to non-payment of tax. Maybe the BBC know more than they're letting on. Edit: Nope, missed this - here's the relevant part: The charge concludes that Mr Whyte got the shareholding by fraud and that he failed to provide contracted funds for the "continued operation" of the club and withheld payment of VAT, PAYE and NI contributions from HMRC. But that's clearly relating to the initial takeover, isn't it? It's Whyte agreeing to do something, then not doing it. So again, it's about misrepresenting his cash and intentions in the takeover. Edited November 29, 2014 by flyingrodent 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingrodent Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 (edited) The charges for fraud span a period from Jan 2010 to Feb 2012, included are that he failed to provide contracted funds for the "continued operation" of the club" by withholding VAT, PAYE and NI from HMRC. That may well be true, but I'll be surprised if it is. I've seen nothing except that vague claim on the BBC's website to indicate it's correct but then, they've clearly got access to the documents. Edit: Ignore this - see previous post. Edited November 29, 2014 by flyingrodent 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Not a chance of me piping down as you put it son. Free speech in a democratic country and all that. Hope that doesn't upset you too much either. We don't live in a democratic country, also free speech is a myth 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.