nacho Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 of course it was designed to gain an advantage. How the hell is this a problem? celtic gained an advantage by getting coop loans at an interest rate no other football club in scotland could get them at, theyve gained an advantage by having more money to spend than their competitors over the last few seasons, aberdeen gained an advantage by running up large debts and getting their chairman to bail then out etc etc need i go on? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 celtic gained an advantage by getting coop loans at an interest rate no other football club in scotland could get them at, theyve gained an advantage by having more money to spend than their competitors over the last few seasons, aberdeen gained an advantage by running up large debts and getting their chairman to bail then out etc etc need i go on? No. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) yep im sure its been wonderful for you all getting the opportunity to finsh second in a 1 horse race rather than 3rd in a 2 horse race 1. the quality of the football has gone massively downhill, the only reason aberdeen are near celtic is because they have massively downsized 2.scotland has fallen in the rankings 3. you have had less money due to a reduced tv deal which had to include rangers in the lower leagues as no-one cares about the top league without rangers 4. "There’s been top six finishes" like every season 5."and cup runs" ditto 6. "crowds have increased at more than half of the top flight grounds." overall attendance is down by a million since 2011/12 from 2.7 million to 1.7 million in 2014-15 up - st johnstone, dundee united, aberdeen, down - inverness ct, st mirren, motherwell, celtic, kilmarnock partick and hamilton and ross county have masively lower attendances than hearts, rangers and hibs, dundee get more than dunfermline so thats an increase at 4 out of 12 and a decrease in 8 0ut of 12 (if you include hearts this season thats 5 out of 12) 7. "Dundee United, Killie, the Dons and Hibs have wiped their debts - the first three thanks to their chairmen putting their hands in their pockets, the debts would have been less if rangers were in the league, hibs have suffered for it and dundee united will suffer for it next season 1. Celtic and Rangers are worse. There's little to suggest others are.2. Scotland falling in the rankings has little bearing on most clubs. We've been in decline for some time and European club football is demonstrably a party to which we're not invited. The disappearance of the second CL spot is a good thing as it ensures a more level playing field at home. 3. The disappearance of Rangers from the top flight has seen clubs lose a little money in absolute terms, but gain loads in real terms as only one club now has vastly greater resources. What do you think the income clubs generate, is for? 4. An additional top six place has effectively been available in recent seasons. 5. The chances for clubs to enjoy cup success have been hugely enhanced by having only one vastly wealthier club to overcome, rather than two. The recent sharing round of trophies provides indisputable evidence of this. 6. As you establish, almost half have seen improved gates. Those with reductions have had enhanced chances of success, which hugely outweighs any slight financial loss. 7. I agree that the shedding of debt has not had a great deal to do with the Rangers situation. Hibs and potentially Dundee United suffer due to relegation - a pretty standard component of competitive football. Edited March 10, 2016 by Monkey Tennis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 of course it was designed to gain an advantage. How the hell is this a problem? Because as things currently stand, it incurred debts the club wouldn't possibly be able to deal with. Do you seriously not see such a thing as problematic? The real point of this discussion though is that it involved breaking football rules to, in your words " gain an advantage". That sounds a great deal like cheating. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Nearly. f**k knows, i love this game of guess the arguments that you dummies come out with, if you have an argument to make then make it yourself , the rangers international one is particularly stupid though, bearing in mind celtic have created holding companies in similar situations , perhaps you meant the rangers football club ltd? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 celtic gained an advantage by getting coop loans at an interest rate no other football club in scotland could get them at, theyve gained an advantage by having more money to spend than their competitors over the last few seasons, aberdeen gained an advantage by running up large debts and getting their chairman to bail then out etc etc need i go on? Feel free to go on. It won't begin to impact however, on the fact that Rangers deliberately registered their players deceitfully, which is against the rules and resulted in a huge fine. That's your cheating, you see. Right there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 I laughed, then laughed some more at your tired attempts at bear-baiting. So where do you stand on the rationale for the EBT scheme and the dishonesty in registering players? Are you on team LNS, or team Kincardine? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Both prove Rangers 1873 are deed. Dodo sums up you and the club you supported. do they? not from anything i have seen , feel free to present your argument though and you made an arse of the second one didnt you you meant the rangers football club ltd 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 No, I meant the Rangers International Football Club. The club you now support. The Edinburgh Gazette has all the information you need that proves Rangers 1873 are deed. nope you didnt thicko, the Rangers International Football Club ltd was set up in december 2012 as a holding company, if you are attempting to argue that the club /company are one and the same then the rangers football club ltd would be the company you are referring to, admit it you made an arse of it, or perhaps you have a new and amazing argument you would like to provide showing that we were formed in december 2012? as for the edinburgh gazette feel free to explain how it proves rangers 1873 are dead as nothing i have seen from it indicates this 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) Because as things currently stand, it incurred debts the club wouldn't possibly be able to deal with. Do you seriously not see such a thing as problematic? The real point of this discussion though is that it involved breaking football rules to, in your words " gain an advantage". That sounds a great deal like cheating. Of course it's problematic and ended up with us hitting the skids. These are the risks you take. Our admin shortcomings were unfortunate but LNS dealt with that to everyone's satisfaction as we've discussed 'countless' times. There really isn't enough material here for you and your odious Applepine pals to get so hysterical. Edited March 10, 2016 by The_Kincardine 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Do you read it? you made an arse of the first one didnt you ignoring it just proves that i was right, ill repeat it and give you another chance nope you didnt thicko, the Rangers International Football Club ltd was set up in december 2012 as a holding company, if you are attempting to argue that the club /company are one and the same then the rangers football club ltd would be the company you are referring to, admit it you made an arse of it, or perhaps you have a new and amazing argument you would like to provide showing that we were formed in december 2012? if you have a point to make about the edinburgh gazette state your case with a link, i know what it is 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Of course it's problematic and ended up with us hitting the skids. These are the risks you take. Our admin shortcomings were unfortunate but LNS dealt with that to everyone's satisfaction as we've discussed 'countless' times. Well why did you ask what the Hell the problem was, then? And yet, you've blatantly contradicted what LNS said. You appear to be in some difficulty here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Well why did you ask what the Hell the problem was, then? And yet, you've blatantly contradicted what LNS said. You appear to be in some difficulty here. Nope. Our use of EBTs was designed to gain an advantage. Our admin errors weren't. Gaining an advantage is what every team tries to do and is not a problem. Clear enough? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 of course it was designed to gain an advantage. How the hell is this a problem? It's illegal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xj2011 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 these questions have been answered before numerous times 1. yep believe 100% there was nothing morally wrong with using ebts, rangers made the mistake of doing it in house rather than organising tax avoidance schemes after payment like celtic did with the film investment scheme 2. newco is not responsible for oldcos debts so legally all the debts have been paid off (and more since there was no legal requirement to pay off football debts), this happens all the time and there has been little support for the creditors of hearts, dundee, motherwell and other clubs who went through the admin process who will get roughly the same pennies in the pound as the creditors of rangers will get, rangers fans also paid some of the creditors back out of their own pockets through the rangers fighting fund which to my knowledge fans of the other teams mentioned did not bother to do (22k to dunfermline, the often mentioned face painter was paid back by a rangers fan - its pretty clear that most of you are having a go just because its rangers 3. we are the same club, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind, as for the debts , nope i do not agree they should be transferred over, hundreds of thousands of companies have been through the same process are are not required to pay the debts so the same should apply to rangers http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-fans-decency-fails-inspire-rfc-fat-cats/1190 thanks for being decent enough to answer me properly 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 It was Nov 2012. Makes no difference it is the new Rangers. When an announcement is made, it is made by Rangers International Football Club. They're Rang2rs. nope they are not as already explained, would love to hear the lunatic reasoning that we were formed in nov 2012 now about the edinburgh gazette or have you given up on trying to make a point? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 It's illegal. it clearly isnt as every court case has stated 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Nope. Our use of EBTs was designed to gain an advantage. Our admin errors weren't. Gaining an advantage is what every team tries to do and is not a problem. Clear enough? No, that's not at all clear, or accurate. Rangers knew that this method of gaining an advantage had the potential to land them with a bill sufficiently large to result in liquidation. They therefore broke football rules by lying about player contracts when registering them. There is a difference between error and deceit, but that doesn't matter here. Rangers broke rules in order to conceal something done to gain advantage, that they were not, reasonably, able to do. Unless of course, you think liquidation was a reasonable path for Rangers to head down. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xj2011 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Hmmm a five year old account, barely used until now, with a familiar posting style...... I haven't posted here much because I have a fairly busy life out-with this football forum (I also don't even live in the UK anymore, but have a passing interest in Scottish footy still) I am genuinely interested in the details of this case, and what happened to the unpaid bills especially the tax bills since whyte took over. but please.. why does the paranoia runs deep with you? you do realise you might be sounding a bit like your victim loving step cousins in the east end of the city? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xj2011 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 by the way, if EBTs were legal then I have no massive problem with them... I am more worried about the bills the oldco didn't pay, yet have got away with by starting up a phoenix club 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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