xbl Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Once again, Im generating enough smugness to power a masterchef broadcaster. I knew there would be a payoff for all the mocking I got about questioning the poll. Now, will hb be man enough to admit the question is leading? And does anyone still wonder why I call ad lib a unionist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roverthemoon Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 We'll now have 20 pages of "but the preamble isn't part of the question" instead of a mature discussion as to why the "No" side feel the need to pose leading questions in polls when the unionists on here keep telling us that they have already won...... Because it's only a small part of the No side who I suspect have set out to persuade the wider No parties, particularly Labour, that if they set out plans for devo max then they'll get a better result. It's probably failed on all levels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 I don't believe the preamble and the question are different "matters". Don't put words in my mouth. I think they're different but mutually related things. In much the same way as neither YouGov nor DevoPlus are "the "No" side". I don't need to put words into your mouth. You've already condemned yourself. Devoplus are on the "No" side. That is absolutely clear from their references to Bringing SNP voters into the "No" camp and persuading Labour "Yes" voters to change their minds. It's Devoplus that pay to pose the questions, not the polling organisation. He who pays the piper....... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 And does anyone still wonder why I call ad lib a unionist? Me, for one. Just to be clear here, I have said I believe the preamble to be leading, dismissed YouGov as an outlier and you think this is evidence that I am a Unionist? I don't need to put words into your mouth. You've already condemned yourself. This is factually inaccurate. You put words in my mouth. I didn't say what you said I said. At no point did I even remotely suggest that "the preamble" and "the question" were different "matters". They are clearly very much part of the same matter, but are different things within it. Devoplus are on the "No" side. That is absolutely clear from their references to Bringing SNP voters into the "No" camp and persuading Labour "Yes" voters to change their minds. It's Devoplus that pay to pose the questions, not the polling organisation. He who pays the piper........ You've clearly completely failed to read my post properly. I didn't say that Devo Plus weren't "on" "the "No" side". I said they weren't "the "No" side". Which isn't the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Once again, Im generating enough smugness to power a masterchef broadcaster. I knew there would be a payoff for all the mocking I got about questioning the poll. Now, will hb be man enough to admit the question is leading? And does anyone still wonder why I call ad lib a unionist? Its taken all day for this? And why are you smug? Is this what the nat collective have cobbled together to explain away todays utter nightmare figures? And i thought you didnt set any store by polling figures? Have you abandoned that one again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 I don't need to put words into your mouth. You've already condemned yourself. Devoplus are on the "No" side. That is absolutely clear from their references to Bringing SNP voters into the "No" camp and persuading Labour "Yes" voters to change their minds. It's Devoplus that pay to pose the questions, not the polling organisation. He who pays the piper....... . And the w.o.s. panelbase poll? Who paid that piper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 I didn't say that Devo Plus weren't "on" "the "No" side". I said they weren't "the "No" side". Which isn't the same thing. Boring us to death with semantics And the w.o.s. panelbase poll? Who paid that piper? You obviously already know the answer. The poll was paid for by a public subscription to the WoS site, which (from memory) raised 3 times the initial financial target in the first 72 hours. Are you suggesting that any of the questions in that poll were as leading as the "preamble" above? Please provide examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Its taken all day for this? And why are you smug? Is this what the nat collective have cobbled together to explain away todays utter nightmare figures? And i thought you didnt set any store by polling figures? Have you abandoned that one again? Remember when I queried the question format, and you told me that I was wrong? Guess what, they didnt ask the referendum question! I was right, you were wrong. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Remember when I queried the question format, and you told me that I was wrong? Guess what, they didnt ask the referendum question! I was right, you were wrong. Again. They did ask the referendum question. They asked it alongside a preamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Hold on a minute. Is this how the question was asked? Please tell me it wasn't? If there was a referendum tomorrow on Scotland leaving the United Kingdom and becoming an independent country and this was the question, how would you vote? Should Scotland be an independent country? Is this from the YouGov site? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Remember when I queried the question format, and you told me that I was wrong? Guess what, they didnt ask the referendum question! I was right, you were wrong. Again. How do we 'know' that was the wording? Is there a link to the data? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davi3j Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 That isn't what I said. Do try and read it again. yes it was The comment is fairly self explanatory. Would you not agree that this lengthy and rather toxic debate is distracting politicians from all sides of the debate from concentrating on our day-to-day problems? I certainly do. As long as this debate runs it will be virtually impossible for our politicians to work collaboratively and efficiently to the benefit of the country. There was a time when Alex Salmond insisted he could publish a white paper within 100 days of taking office. He didn't and this process has been lengthened unnecessarily by the SNP. you said "this debate", thats one issue, (independence referendum) you seem to think our politicians are unable to do anything to improve this country while they have that one issue to deal with...why do you think our politicians in Edinburgh and London are incapable of dealing with more than one issue at a time??? I know they're not very good, but surely they're not as bad as that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 How do we 'know' that was the wording? Is there a link to the data? Link to a PowerPoint from the devo plus people. Colkitto posted it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Is this from the YouGov site? It appears to be from a Devo+ press release https://www.dropbox.com/s/4wn0eaiasix78gd/presentation%20for%20sunday%20briefing%20FINAL.pdf The yougov archive is expected to be up "tomorrow" according to WoS earlier on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Ah... couldnt see the thing in colkittos post on my phone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Im not seeing the smoking gun here. Ashcroft poll in May has almost exactly the same premble. Its a bit superfluous but i dont think it makes any difference to the question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Im not seeing the smoking gun here. Ashcroft poll in May has almost exactly the same premble. Its a bit superfluous but i dont think it makes any difference to the question Come on now, of course it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 I assume Ashcroft is some sort of neutral guy with no vested interest? And the reason we're gloating on here is because you were insistent that there was nothing wrong with the question, and you were mocking those who dared to speculate that they might have asked a leading question...which they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 There is nothing wrong with the question... its the same question that will be asked next year. With a preamble. This was already on the ukpollingdata website. Its the same preamble they used last august. The question then wasnt the correct referendum wording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 There is nothing wrong with the question... its the same question that will be asked next year. With a preamble. This was already on the ukpollingdata website. Its the same question yougov asked last august, with the same preamble. And so, as I said, yougov have not asked the referendum question, ever, but always preface it with an extraordinarily leading preamble. Once again, I was right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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