Orange Walk / Scottish Cricket thread

[THE KING]

It's difficult to see what posting a link to a document entitled "Declaration in the relation of the Church to non-Christian religions" was supposed to prove with respect to suggestions that the Vatican claimed to lead the one true christian church and thus superior to any others Christian denominations.

Even then it's quite clear in it's insistence that while there may be "rays of truth" to be found in other religions it is their own one that is the light itself. That is hard not to see as a statement of superiority. Which is fair enough Pope Paul VI was hardly likely to issue a statement saying "I've just read the Koran and had a think about it and I reckon they're right and we've been getting things wrong for the last millenia"

As I say thinking that your beliefs, spiritual or rational, are correct (and thus superior) is intrinsic to the nature of believing. To pretend that it's only people you don't like that do so is a poor show (at least in my opinion, which is better than yours).

Thinking that your spiritual beliefs are correct doesnt mean you believe they are superior?!

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Thinking that your spiritual beliefs are correct doesnt mean you believe they are superior?!

Is that a question or a statement?

[Jacksgranda]

Is that a question or a statement?

It depends what he thinks the words mean.

[LongTimeLurker]

Best way to end so called "sectarianism" is to integrate the schools. Until the politicians and the chattering classes in general are willing to tackle that they should just shut up about it, because they are part of the problem.

[1320Lichtie]

Best way to end so called "sectarianism" is to integrate the schools. Until the politicians and the chattering classes in general are willing to tackle that they should just shut up about it, because they are part of the problem.

It would be a start

Division so early on can't be helpful

[The OP]

I went to a non-denominational school where my atheist self was labelled a ****** b*****d.

Integration didn't work well in that instance. It's almost as though these attitudes are learned at home.

Tbf though, I tend to broadly agree that these days sectarianism is overrated as an issue. I know in my parent's day you could be denied a job for kicking with the wrong foot and people looked down upon 'mixed marriages' but I can't think of any way in which sectarianism has impinged on my life, other than a bit of name calling and being woken up (hungover) by zombies marching in time to the unnecessary din made by these bigoted supremacist walks.

[The OP]

I recall H_B and others used to take up the mantle of catholic schools and argue that non-denominational schools are actually Protestant schools. My high school never struck me as a Protestant school but my primary school definitely was (although apparently we had a chaplain at high school who I'd just never seen or heard from).

It does tend to be staunch Protestants and OO members who blame the existence of Catholic schools for prejudice and argue for integration, in my experience, although I personally do believe there should be no religion in schools at all. Institutional and societal anti-catholic bias certainly existed in a far more extreme form before the schools came into being and the schools aren't wholly segregated. In every school you'll find a proportion from the other sect and a proportion from non-Christian groups.

A further thought is that at my school there was more gang rivalry than anything else, and Catholics and Protestants from one area would generally be united against the Catholics and Protestants from another area.

[LongTimeLurker]

By way of a reality check. There is no God just as there is no tooth fairy and no Santa Claus. The overwhelming majority of the younger generation grasp this. Splitting children up based on differing ways to worship an imaginary sky fairy is backward and grotesque.

[~~~]

Best way to end so called "sectarianism" is to integrate the schools. Until the politicians and the chattering classes in general are willing to tackle that they should just shut up about it, because they are part of the problem.

Doesn't seem to be a problem in such places as Canada,or even England. People make that statement without any substance.

I went to both a Catholic school (not for religious reasons, it was by far the best school in the area) and a "non dom" we had a week visit from the local Chaplin which I believe is rather common.

[~~~]

It is the only form of real segregation that exists

You know i'd have to denounce my religion to be accepted into the royal family. Or swear an oath of allegiance to the "defender of the faith" just to become a MP

It's always amazing how people seem to forget that under law Catholics are banned from succession to the crown.

Never mind though, what about they schools eh? You know the ones that you don't even have to be catholic to attend

[~~~]

All over the world where divided communities exist then the importance of integrating School kids has been identified as key to breaking down social barriers- Apartheid South Africa, segregation in America, northern England after the race riots....

Yet, in Scotland very often the same people who shout the most about the problems of sectarianism are those are very often absolutely vehement in their support for segregated schooling...

You're really comparing Scotland to apartheid South Africa?

Interesting you blanked my comments regarding the royal family and that non Catholics can still go to a catholic school as can catholic children to a non dom. So it's hardly segregated schooling

I'm not sure if not clued up on the subject, hence why you're making a pig's ear of it, or just desperately trying to look for something to complain about

Edited May 29, 2015 by Enrico Annoni

[~~~]

Did you have aspirations to become a monarch? Aye that's huge discrimination against.....one person. This matter has already been discussed. The Queen is the supreme governor of the Church of England, it makes as much sense to have an RC Queen as Protestant Pope!

Try being a non-Catholic and trying to get a teaching post in a RC primary school- you wont get one.

Try being a non Catholic and try to get a promoted position within a RC secondary school- if you're very lucky you might get one position up hat will be your lot.

Yes, but the law in this country forbids it. Do you agree with that?

The rest regarding schools is nonsense as I know a non Catholic teacher who teaches at a Catholic school.

[pandarilla]

Yes, but the law in this country forbids it. Do you agree with that?

The rest regarding schools is nonsense as I know a non Catholic teacher who teaches at a Catholic school.

To be fair to him - it's very, very unusual or non-Catholic teachers to be promoted in Catholic schools.

Not sure about the primary situation.

[~~~]

Yes I agree with it,

Well if you agree with that, please don't come on here crying about Catholic schools.

[~~~]

Eh? The two are not related. I don't believe kids should be taught religion in schools- they should learn facts.

Furthermore I don't believe that anyone should be prohibited from a teaching job based upon their religion or lack of it.

You didn't answer my question about where your pal taught- secondary or primary?

They clearly are. Hence why you're not trying to deflect from the issue.

In your mind. Banning Catholics from becoming head of state = A good thing

Catholic schools, open to all = bad thing

You'd have to be very narrow minded not to believe Children should be educated on other cultures around the world and at home.

[TheCelt67]

Try being a non-Catholic and trying to get a teaching post in a RC primary school- you wont get one.

Try being a non Catholic and try to get a promoted position within a RC secondary school- if you're very lucky you might get one position up hat will be your lot.

Try being the Church of Scotland member who was appointed the 'Heidie' of two Roman Catholic primary schools.....

[parsforlife]

It's not that hard to understand.

royal family and all that goes with it-bad

Religion in schools and employing staff and splitting children based on the particular quirks of beliefs- bad.

Edited May 29, 2015 by parsforlife

[topcat(The most tip top)]

What are you actually talking about? are you drunk or something?

Having a Protestant as head of the Church of England= essential..

Having the UK head of state as head of the established church in England is less so.

Given the extremely marginal nature of Anglicanism in both Scotland and Northern Ireland it's hard to see the relevance to the current discussion anyway.

That's really a fight Enrico should be picking with English people

[TheCelt67]

Did you have aspirations to become a monarch? Aye that's huge discrimination against.....one person. This matter has already been discussed. The Queen is the supreme governor of the Church of England, it makes as much sense to have an RC Queen as Protestant Pope!

Try being a non-Catholic and trying to get a teaching post in a RC primary school- you wont get one.

Try being a non Catholic and try to get a promoted position within a RC secondary school- if you're very lucky you might get one position up hat will be your lot.

Primary school teachers need to acquire a certificate of approval to be allowed to teach in an RC primary school. There may be the odd exceptions where someone of non RC background has been granted one but it will be less than 1%. So you gave a situation where 700odd certificate holders can work in any of the 2000odd primary posts in Scotland but the 1300odd non certificate holders are confined to the 1300odd non denom jobs...

Well that's progress, in the space of 40 minutes we've moved on from non-RCs being refused employment to RC schools making the odd exception.

Whilst I don't disagree the number of non-RCs teaching in a RC school will be low, I am curious as to how you came about these figures.

[The OP]

Again, I believe that bigoted attitudes are largely learned at home.

At my school we had more than enough bigots, racists and homophobes - going to school with some people who represented that which they hated didn't cure that. Just like going to school with someone from a neighbouring scheme didn't cure hatred of people from that scheme.

I think my main issue is that I believe organizations like the OO blame Catholic schools for bigotry to mask a fear of counter-reformation or some shit or to blame the problem on the outgroup for being atypical. The separation of church and state is a perfectly legitimate view to hold, but blaming hundreds of years of endemic bigotry on the other lot having their own schools because in the past they required to set up their own schools, seems a bit simplistic.