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Orange Walk / Scottish Cricket thread


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Long time lurker, you should read Max Hasting's biography of Winston Churchill if you believe the children's fairytale that Britain entered war with Germany to preserve democracy...

What I focused on was the immediate aftermath of the fall of France rather than what happened in 1939 and you appear to have missed some of the nuanced points in my post over the Union Flag only symbolizing freedom in the narrow context related to that. When the crunch came and a deal could have been done after the military disaster in France (Hitler didn't press home his advantage at Dunkirk with a view to achieving that) when Hitler still had a non-aggression pact with Stalin in the east, the UK kept fighting even though people like Churchill knew it would probably ultimately mean the end of Empire.

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Shouting 'f**k the pope' when you're from Portugal and 99% likely to be Catholic. :lol::lol::lol:

^^^A very Scottish mentality. Portugal has a "red belt" in the south from about Lisbon down to just north of the Algarve where most of the population had strong Communist or Socialist sympathies by the mid-20th century and often very much rejected the RC church. Benfica traditionally draws a lot of its support from people from that sort of background. Italy has something similar north of Rome around about Tuscany in the former Papal States. Hence why clubs like Livorno and Empoli (Ultras are called Rangers funnily enough) are very left leaning. In most of southern Europe the emergence of the modern nation state was due to the emergence of liberal and left wing anti-clerical movements, so people don't equate Roman Catholicism with national identity in the way that happens in the island of Ireland or in countries like Croatia and Poland where there were other national groups like Serbs and Ukrainians that spoke much the same language but traditionally went to a different type of church.

scud.jpg

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^^^A very Scottish mentality. Portugal has a "red belt" in the south from about Lisbon down to just north of the Algarve where most of the population had strong Communist or Socialist sympathies by the mid-20th century and often very much rejected the RC church. Benfica traditionally draws a lot of its support from people from that sort of background. Italy has something similar north of Rome around about Tuscany in the former Papal States. Hence why clubs like Livorno and Empoli (Ultras are called Rangers funnily enough) are very left leaning. In most of southern Europe the emergence of the modern nation state was due to the emergence of liberal and left wing anti-clerical movements, so people don't equate Roman Catholicism with national identity in the way that happens in the island of Ireland or in countries like Croatia and Poland where there were other national groups like Serbs and Ukrainians that spoke much the same language but traditionally went to a different type of church.

scud.jpg

I imagine 'f**k the pope' to be quite a popular chant on the terraces of Livorno and Benfica.

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ahh those far left celtic fans who bombarded a high profile black rangers player with banana's on his old firm debut ?

Let's not forget the Rangers captain who racially abused a black Dortmund player.

Swings and roundabouts

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If Che Guevara were alive today I think we can safely say that Rangers FC would be towards the bottom of the list of football clubs he'd support. He hated imperialism.

and if william wallace was alive the day he might support england in the world cup .

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If Che Guevara were alive today I think we can safely say that Rangers FC would be towards the bottom of the list of football clubs he'd support. He hated imperialism.

...but if you are an Italian from Empoli who is fiercely anti-clerical maybe all you see is that they are anti-RC church and we are anti-RC church, they play in blue we play in blue, or maybe there's no connection at all I'm not sure to be honest? In Scotland the RC church cosied up in a big way to the main left wing party with the trade-off being RC schools guaranteed in exchange for a block RC vote, so the Kelly and White families that traditionally controlled Celtic before the mars bars started flying could comfortably accommodate left wing politics with Roman Catholicism but in southern Europe an involvement with a socialist party often led to excommunication:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentiloni_pact

Different set of historical circumstances so you can't easily apply what seems normal to people in the west of Scotland to what happens somewhere like Portugal or Italy.

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...and where are you going with this? Lorenzo Amoruso isn't the most Lowland Scots Presbyterian sounding of names so odds on it had more to do with expediency and needing him playing at his best in the next game rather than anything deeply sinister about the traditional culture of the club. It was Rangers who signed Mark Walters after all and way before that Walter Tull:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Tull

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A black barstewart, tried to deny it. Before getting caught and surprisingly no action taken by the club for it

And didn't a very recent Celtic manager mouth "dirty Orange barstewards" at the Main Stand at Ibrox during an OF game, and escape punishment from his club?

As you say, swings and roundabouts.

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I would say keeping score of vile acts between the OF would be a full time job in all honesty.

Agreed, they both have a disproportionately large number of vile bigots, but Half Rice is trying demonise very large numbers of Rangers fans by linking them to fascism and fascist groups, just as he tried to demonise the union flag earlier in this thread.

Edited by Audaces Fortuna Juvat
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Let's not forget the Rangers captain who racially abused a black Dortmund player.

Swings and roundabouts

Great bit of whataboutery.

Let's also look at the racist abuse Ian Wright suffered at the mouths of Celtic fans. And that's not even to mention John Barnes.

Celtic fans have a disgraceful record of intolerance and racism.

Edited by H_B
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