Scottish Independence

[Confidemus]

This is a decent point - we've never established if Stiglitz was consulted on the CT cut, or if he was just wheeled in for the FWC. We know what his views on CT cuts are though so If he wasn't, why not? Why hire a nobel prize winner and not ask him about prospective tax policy? bit odd...

well that's my point - why would they change their belifs? why would Stiglitz? You're the one batting the context line. I agree the overall package could eb progressive but there's no evidence in the White Paper it will be.

That's it, I'm telling your Dad.

[banterman86]

That's it, I'm telling your Dad.

he's too busy voting labour

[Baxter Parp]

well that's my point - why would they change their belifs? why would Stiglitz? You're the one batting the context line. I agree the overall package could eb progressive but there's no evidence in the White Paper it will be.

I never said anyone would change their beliefs, I said Steigliz would look at the whole package before he made up his mind. As you've noted yourself, we don't know the context in which he made his remarks, he may be happy with a 20% CT rate but dead set against 10%, we don't know. Taking an out-of-context remark and using it as evidence to further an argument is the mark of the kind of brainless liar H_B is.

[banterman86]

I never said anyone would change their beliefs, I said Steigliz would look at the whole package before he made up his mind. As you've noted yourself, we don't know the context in which he made his remarks, he may be happy with a 20% CT rate but dead set against 10%, we don't know. Taking an out-of-context remark and using it as evidence to further an argument is the mark of the kind of brainless liar H_B is.

I think, given his comments it's unlikely any context would see Stiglitz as being supportive of a CT cut - as far as I know he's never shown any enthusiasm for it. He may have at soem point i suppose.

of course, as an overall package the white paper isn;t particularly progressive on tax at all.

[Baxter Parp]

I think, given his comments it's unlikely any context would see Stiglitz as being supportive of a CT cut - as far as I know he's never shown any enthusiasm for it. He may have at soem point i suppose.

He would if corporation tax was 99%. Context is everything.

[banterman86]

He would if corporation tax was 99%. Context is everything.

I meant context as in the oevrall package or the new state of an independent Scotland.

It is worth noting that, if I recall correctly, the White Paper doesn;t set an arbitary number for the cut, simply that it be 3 points below rUk. Will double check

[banterman86]

Aye

"We plan to set out a timescale for reducing corporation tax by up to three percentage points below the prevailing UK rate."

[Baxter Parp]

Aye

"We plan to set out a timescale for reducing corporation tax by up to three percentage points below the prevailing UK rate."

So if the UK sets CT at the progressive rate of 50%, the Scottish rate will be a regressive 47%?

[banterman86]

So if the UK sets CT at the progressive rate of 50%, the Scottish rate will be a regressive 47%?

Except that isn;t the UK rate....

[HardyBamboo]

he's too busy voting labour

Just like you.

[banterman86]

Just like you.

^^^^

Not Stephen Fry

[Guest]

Thought this was an interesting wee read and funny to hear opposing views being fairly similar.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27662392

Seems to come down to just some people want major change, some are happy in their wee bubble. The tone of your average No voter does seem to be "how will it affect me?" "my situation?"

Which is fair enough to an extent I suppose but it would be nice if some folk (on both sides) could look beyond their own personal situation. Because of the city and the industry I am lucky enough to work in I don't think a No vote would affect me a great deal, I'd carry on as normal.

But I think Scotland as a whole would suffer in the medium to long term and that's why I am voting Yes.

From that 30 strong panel, and looking at the undecideds it seems there are 10 Yes, 9 No, 5 soft Yes, 3 soft No and 3 actual undecideds.

Decent, balanced reporting.

[~~~]

Think I'll pass

[banterman86]

Thought this was an interesting wee read and funny to hear opposing views being fairly similar.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27662392

Seems to come down to just some people want major change, some are happy in their wee bubble. The tone of your average No voter does seem to be "how will it affect me?" "my situation?"

Which is fair enough to an extent I suppose but it would be nice if some folk (on both sides) could look beyond their own personal situation.

And yet curiously, this idea of No voters saying "how will it effect, England, Wales and Northern ireland" is always brushed aside

[Guest]

And yet curiously, this idea of No voters saying "how will it effect, England, Wales and Northern ireland" is always brushed aside

When do people say this?

And who brushes it aside?

[Blaven]

And yet curiously, this idea of No voters saying "how will it effect, England, Wales and Northern ireland" is always brushed aside

Ms Bairn has said he couldnt give a f*ck about what other Scots want let alone England, Wales or Northern Ireland.

[Confidemus]

Thought this was an interesting wee read and funny to hear opposing views being fairly similar.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27662392

Seems to come down to just some people want major change, some are happy in their wee bubble. The tone of your average No voter does seem to be "how will it affect me?" "my situation?"

Which is fair enough to an extent I suppose but it would be nice if some folk (on both sides) could look beyond their own personal situation. Because of the city and the industry I am lucky enough to work in I don't think a No vote would affect me a great deal, I'd carry on as normal.

But I think Scotland as a whole would suffer in the medium to long term and that's why I am voting Yes.

From that 30 strong panel, and looking at the undecideds it seems there are 10 Yes, 9 No, 5 soft Yes, 3 soft No and 3 actual undecideds.

Decent, balanced reporting.

And that's why I'm voting Yes. The outcome of the vote won't particularly affect me or my family's life directly either way. But the repercussions of how we vote will surely affect our children and their children and so on.

I genuinely believe that Yes is the only option for the betterment of the country and for generations to come.

And yet curiously, this idea of No voters saying "how will it effect, England, Wales and Northern ireland" is always brushed aside

I personally have never heard any No voter say that exact sentence. Unfortunately, in the upcoming referendum, we're not given that option.

[banterman86]

When do people say this?

And who brushes it aside?

it;s quite a popular class warrior argument - "I have more in common with the working class of Manchester and Cardiff than i do a rural scotsman" it;s not miles away from what labour are saying solidarity comrade and that.

It's brushed aside by commentators and posters on here, who make the valid point of "why does solidarity stop at dover"? etc etc.

i;m not having a go, just that the "what about others" argument is on both sides.

[banterman86]

I personally have never heard any No voter say that exact sentence. Unfortunately, in the upcoming referendum, we're not given that option.

You've neve heard the argumenty "vote no to stay in solidarity with the working classes of england and Wales"?

[Ad Lib]

When do people say this?

And who brushes it aside?

It's the common refrain issued by quite a few Yes voters in response to the more socialist leaning "common cause" argument made by many Unionists who feel they have more in common, politically, culturally, socially and economically, with people in similar predicaments in Manchester than they do with those from a more privileged economic and social background in Scotland.

As a privileged, hopelessly middle class person living in Scotland, I don't particularly feel as though I have anything particularly special in common with most Scots or Brits, or Europeans. Except Thistle fans.