I'm Brian Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I am right the overwhelming majority of the time and the overwhelming majority of posts I make here are correcting people who are wrong the majority of the time. Me criticising the Better Together campaign is literally a waste of my time. It doesn't harm the Better Together campaign among those who are actually likely to change their mind, it does nothing but add to the noise of those already criticising every breath every Unionist takes on this forum, and it doesn't improve the overall quality of debate. Me attacking the Clown Collective relentlessly is not a waste of my time. It exposes their lies and discredits them from within the Yes movement. I would rather Yes lost and ran an intellectually coherent campaign than it won by nonsensical lying. I'm sorry to break this to you, but you really aren't right the overwhelming majority of the time, and the people you are "correcting" aren't wrong the majority of the time. As I say you may think this, but it really isn't the case. So if I can get this straight, you are quite happy to allow the No side to spout whatever nonsense they like, but when you see something that you disagree with from the Yes side you are all over it like a rash. If you want to keep it real, keep it real from both perspectives. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broccoli Dog Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 There's plenty of voices out there deconstructing the pitiful pro-union argument, but it's important that fellow travellers on the Yes side are able to challenge from within and ensure that the debate isn't an echo chamber. What's really important is to ensure that we all (of the Yes persuasion) have a cohesive vision for what happens on September 19th (whatever way the vote goes). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) I get a bid bored/fed up reading some of the proper militant Yesmen on here, even though I'm pro-Independence. I don't feel the need to assign myself a role on here and constantly write up essays about why I'm undertaking it, because: - I don't habitually scramble for relevance. - This isn't real life. Confidemus and co aren't controlling the national debate through P&B. Get a fucking grip. Edited July 6, 2014 by SodjesSixteenIncher 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I'm sorry to break this to you, but you really aren't right the overwhelming majority of the time, and the people you are "correcting" aren't wrong the majority of the time. As I say you may think this, but it really isn't the case. The stats say otherwise, champ. I am Champions League. You are Mid-Sussex Football League Division 11. So if I can get this straight, you are quite happy to allow the No side to spout whatever nonsense they like, but when you see something that you disagree with from the Yes side you are all over it like a rash. If you want to keep it real, keep it real from both perspectives. No are already being kept real on this forum. Yes aren't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I get a bid bored/fed up reading some of the proper militant Yesmen on here, even though I'm pro-Independence. I don't feel the need to assign myself a role on here and constantly write up essays about why I'm undertaking it, because: - I don't habitually scramble for relevane. - This isn't real life. Confidemus and co aren't controlling the national debate through P&B. Get a fucking grip. A voice of reason . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I get a bid bored/fed up reading some of the proper militant Yesmen on here, even though I'm pro-Independence. I don't feel the need to assign myself a role on here and constantly write up essays about why I'm undertaking it, because: - I don't habitually scramble for relevane. - This isn't real life. Confidemus and co aren't controlling the national debate through P&B. Get a fucking grip. If you honestly think I believe I'm controlling the national debate through P&B then it's you that needs to get a fucking grip. I have no illusions about what I contribute (or don't) on here and what difference it makes. It is, however a forum, and has no set limits on how little or how much anyone can say, regardless of how much it upsets you. I see you every now and then offering these types of musings. Makes me wonder who is actually scrambling for relevance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Brian Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 The stats say otherwise, champ. I am Champions League. You are Mid-Sussex Football League Division 11. No are already being kept real on this forum. Yes aren't. What stats are these? And if you please it's mid Wiltshire. So again if I can get this straight, the people who you are referring to as "the clown collective" are keeping no real. You are quite happy for them to do so even though they "are wrong the majority of the time" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 If you honestly think I believe I'm controlling the national debate through P&B then it's you that needs to get a fucking grip. I have no illusions about what I contribute (or don't) on here and what difference it makes. It is, however a forum, and has no set limits on how little or how much anyone can say, regardless of how much it upsets you. I see you every now and then offering these types of musings. Makes me wonder who is actually scrambling for relevance. Please explain to me what you think is going on right now? The clue to me not thinking your unreleting pish on here has any impact on anything outwith P&B, was when I directly said so. Confidemus and co aren't controlling the national debate through P&B. Hence there's no need for Ad Lib's attention seeking act on here based on the No side already being criticised. The public debate and P&B aren't the same thing. His "keeping Yes honest" isn't keeping Yes honest. I think you thought my last post was addressed to you and just flew off the handle without reading it but still, look alive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) Please explain to me what you think is going on right now? The clue to me not thinking your unreleting pish on here has any impact on anything outwith P&B, was when I directly said so. Hence there's no need for Ad Lib's attention seeking act on here based on the No side already being criticised. The public debate and P&B aren't the same thing. His "keeping Yes honest" isn't keeping Yes honest. I think you thought my last post was addressed to you and just flew off the handle without reading it but still, look alive. Apologies for reading it too fast and flying off the handle. Let's face it, it's far from the first time I've made a fud of myself on P&B and probs won't be the last, tbf. ETA: Although you can get fucked with your "unrelenting pish" patter. Edited July 6, 2014 by Confidemus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryfield Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I get a bid bored/fed up reading some of the proper militant Yesmen on here, even though I'm pro-Independence. I don't feel the need to assign myself a role on here and constantly write up essays about why I'm undertaking it, because: - I don't habitually scramble for relevance. - This isn't real life. Confidemus and co aren't controlling the national debate through P&B. Get a fucking grip. If you honestly think I believe I'm controlling the national debate through P&B then it's you that needs to get a fucking grip. I have no illusions about what I contribute (or don't) on here and what difference it makes. It is, however a forum, and has no set limits on how little or how much anyone can say, regardless of how much it upsets you. I see you every now and then offering these types of musings. Makes me wonder who is actually scrambling for relevance. Oops. A wee bit of infighting. The last thing YES campaign needs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Cort's Hamstring Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Except that on the currency issue, no had by far the worse of the exchange. The polls narrowed significantly in the wake of that and In the impossible scenario of a yes win we would use the pound and it's highly likely a currency union would happen. The currency union issue showed the worst of both sides. I thought (and still do) that Yes were in the wrong on that issue. They presented currency union as a virtual fait accompli, when it wasn't in their power. It was naive and a wee bit arrogant and misleading. The UK government could have pointed this out in a mature and reasonable way, but instead did their hectoring routine and came out things like "an independent Scotland wouldn't be allowed to use the pound," which is of course complete nonsense. A subtle approach could have completely torpedoed the SNP position on the issue, but they couldn't help themselves and managed to turn many people against them. There was just a tidal wave of bullsh*t from both sides, and pretty much summed up the debate for me. There's no doubt the No campaign has been much worse than the Yes, but I don't think either of them have been good. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) What stats are these? And if you please it's mid Wiltshire.You must be joining the Clown Collective tonight. As anyone paying even cursory attention to the English football pyramid knows, there are only two league tiers with Wiltshire in their name and neither are prefixed with Mid. Moreover, they are not part of the same tier of the pyramid as the league you are in, which is, as a matter of basic fact, Mid-Sussex, Division 11. You are therefore doing your level best to fulfil the quota of being wrong most of the time before dinner.So again if I can get this straight, the people who you are referring to as "the clown collective" are keeping no real. You are quite happy for them to do so even though they "are wrong the majority of the time"Nope. The 2 or 3 vaguely intelligent Yes voters on the forum are keeping No real. None of them are in the Clown Collective but most of them do very little if anything to keep the Yes campaign real or the Clown Collective in their tin foil box. As a martyr to the cause, I valiantly step into the breach to raise Pie and Bovril from the pits of street juggling of the Clown Collective to the perfected excellence of dialectic that is the Moscow State Circus, with trapeze unknown to mere mortals born to the West of the Berlin Wall. Edited July 6, 2014 by Ad Lib 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 If the Yes supporters were just a bit intellectually honest this might be a decent source of some form of objective truth amongst the rampant lies both sides are feeding us. But they aren't so that's impossible. There's no honesty from the Yes campaign. Just slavish devotion to the cause and blinkered pretence that they are these honest souls plalying with a straight bat whilst battling the lies of the other side. It's pathetic and it takes us nowhere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 You must be joining the Clown Collective tonight. As anyone paying even cursory attention to the English football pyramid knows, there are only two league tiers with Wiltshire in their name and neither are prefixed with Mid. Moreover, they are not part of the same tier of the pyramid as the league you are in, which is, as a matter of basic fact, Mid-Sussex. You are therefore doing your level best to fulfil the quota of being wrong most of the time me before dinner. Nope. The 2 or 3 vaguely intelligent Yes voters on the forum are keeping No real. None of them are in the Clown Collective but most of them do very little if anything to keep the Yes campaign real or the Clown Collective in their tin foil box. As a martyr to the cause, I valiantly step into the breach to raise Pie and Bovril from the pits of street juggling of the Clown Collective to the perfected excellence of dialectic that is the Moscow State Circus, with trapeze unknown to mere mortals born to the West of the Berlin Wall. Both Ivo den bieman and Renton, who are two of the smarter Yes posters, have now admitted they have no interest in admitting to and acknowledging Yes lies and will instead only consider No malfeasance. I guess maybe it's a side effect to defeat coming close. Renton in particular seems to be taking the poor state of the Yes campaigns chances badly. I just don't understand why intelligent people are happy to give a free pass to lies from a campaign they are giving their support to. I'd be embarrassed to do so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaldo Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 You must be joining the Clown Collective tonight. As anyone paying even cursory attention to the English football pyramid knows, there are only two league tiers with Wiltshire in their name and neither are prefixed with Mid. Moreover, they are not part of the same tier of the pyramid as the league you are in, which is, as a matter of basic fact, Mid-Sussex, Division 11. You are therefore doing your level best to fulfil the quota of being wrong most of the time before dinner. Nope. The 2 or 3 vaguely intelligent Yes voters on the forum are keeping No real. None of them are in the Clown Collective but most of them do very little if anything to keep the Yes campaign real or the Clown Collective in their tin foil box. As a martyr to the cause, I valiantly step into the breach to raise Pie and Bovril from the pits of street juggling of the Clown Collective to the perfected excellence of dialectic that is the Moscow State Circus, with trapeze unknown to mere mortals born to the West of the Berlin Wall. Absolutely shite post. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryfield Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 If the Yes supporters were just a bit intellectually honest this might be a decent source of some form of objective truth amongst the rampant lies both sides are feeding us. But they aren't so that's impossible. There's no honesty from the Yes campaign. Just slavish devotion to the cause and blinkered pretence that they are these honest souls plalying with a straight bat whilst battling the lies of the other side. It's pathetic and it takes us nowhere. The amount of YES folk I have read, spoken to and listened to who garnered all their info from Wings and NewsNet was phenomenal. They bubbled themselves and got carried away on a wave of hysteria. Blinkered and obsessed. The result isn't in yet but these folk simply set themselves up for a big gunk if all the pieces in the jigsaw don't fall into place. Ho hum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 A lot of marginal yes voters like myself can see the faults in both campaigns. In saying that the utter seethe from the losing side will be hilarious no matter what side loses. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabianKnight Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I just don't understand why intelligent people are happy to give a free pass to lies from a campaign they are giving their support to. I'd be embarrassed to do so. Apart from the legal advice re: e.u membership and the posturing/brinkmanship over a currency union, could you be very specific about these lies you are saying the Yes campaign are coming out with? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryfield Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 A lot of marginal yes voters like myself can see the faults in both campaigns. In saying that the utter seethe from the losing side will be hilarious no matter what side loses. I'm looking forward to it. I'm voting NO, betting on YES but overall, I'm not fussed one way or the other who wins. I'll be in the Costa del Sol when the result comes in anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Both Ivo den bieman and Renton, who are two of the smarter Yes posters, have now admitted they have no interest in admitting to and acknowledging Yes lies and will instead only consider No malfeasance. I guess maybe it's a side effect to defeat coming close. Renton in particular seems to be taking the poor state of the Yes campaigns chances badly. I just don't understand why intelligent people are happy to give a free pass to lies from a campaign they are giving their support to. I'd be embarrassed to do so. And you have no interest in acknowledging no lies and spend all your time chasing yes malfeasance. This latest post is yet another example of your style: attempt to paint the other as extreme so you can occupy the middle ground. And you'very never been embarrassed by the no campaign have you? Straight shooters aren't they? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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