Highland League restructuring

[Enigma]

If there were 3 regions there is no way you'd divide it North, Midlands and South... It would be North, East and West. And given you'd need the Juniors it's quite possible the dividing line would still be at the Tay albeit I suppose you could carry it up to Stonehaven.

I know, but linking-up with NR would be a start.

You'd probably use Angus as a could be in North or East type county.

[edinabear]

Has there been any further updates on the possibility of a HL2 including North East juniors?

[Whitburn Vale]

Has there been any further updates on the possibility of a HL2 including North East juniors?

Nothing as yet edina,if the highland champs go up into SPFL 2 then something may happen,on the other hand it may not,they'll just invite Banks o Dee in. The problem is getting everyone round the table including the Tayside juniors,a big ask!!

[HibeeJibee]

Earlier in the year HL clubs voted 9-8 to divide into 2 divisions of 10 in the event their current membership increased from 18 clubs to 19 (as a result of an SPFL2 club being relegated). According to reports Wick could not get anyone to the meeting and were not allowed to place a proxy vote against. In light of the fact that the vote was so tight - and would have been tied in the event all 18 club had been represented - there was a lot of speculation over the likelihood of it being held to rigorously. Subsequently HL said the details had still to be worked on then go back before the clubs, plus the chairman of some clubs - e.g. Nairn, IIRC - said the threshold could be raised to 21 instead of 19. Broad proposal included HL1 title playoff and SFL-style playoff between HL1 & HL2, and automatic returning to 1 division if/when numbers dropped below 19.

I don't imagine anything notable has happened regarding NCL or Juniors.

[RedLichtie86]

Earlier in the year HL clubs voted 9-8 to divide into 2 divisions of 10 in the event their current membership increased from 18 clubs to 19 (as a result of an SPFL2 club being relegated). According to reports Wick could not get anyone to the meeting and were not allowed to place a proxy vote against. In light of the fact that the vote was so tight - and would have been tied in the event all 18 club had been represented - there was a lot of speculation over the likelihood of it being held to rigorously. Subsequently HL said the details had still to be worked on then go back before the clubs, plus the chairman of some clubs - e.g. Nairn, IIRC - said the threshold could be raised to 21 instead of 19. Broad proposal included HL1 title playoff and SFL-style playoff between HL1 & HL2, and automatic returning to 1 division if/when numbers dropped below 19.

I don't imagine anything notable has happened regarding NCL or Juniors.

A 2 division Highland League system is a good idea. hopefully the SPFL can restructure the league set up so that more than 1 team is promoted/relegated between the SPFL and HL/LL to give an added incentive.

A 10 team HL with 1 going up automatically. And the 2nd and 3rd teams from both HL and LL facing off in a 4 team playoffs for automatic promotion to the SPFL.

But for that to happen the SPFL needs to make a bigger effort for movement between the leagues with an expanded lower tier with more relegation places.

[welshbairn]

A 2 division Highland League system is a good idea. hopefully the SPFL can restructure the league set up so that more than 1 team is promoted/relegated between the SPFL and HL/LL to give an added incentive.

A 10 team HL with 1 going up automatically. And the 2nd and 3rd teams from both HL and LL facing off in a 4 team playoffs for automatic promotion to the SPFL.

But for that to happen the SPFL needs to make a bigger effort for movement between the leagues with an expanded lower tier with more relegation places.

Aye, because 10 team leagues have proven so popular, same ties 4-6 times a season. Keep the 18 or at the least 16, with maybe a split around February. And sort out promotion/relegation between the juniors and the HL. The geographical problems with promotion/relegation between the HL/LL and the SPFL won't be sorted until there is some regional element in SPFL 2 and SPFL 1.

[Whitburn Vale]

Formartine rattle 10(ten) past mid table Buckie,this is getting ridiculous now,time for change,time for 2 highland divisions in the SHFL.

[welshbairn]

Formartine rattle 10(ten) past mid table Buckie,this is getting ridiculous now,time for change,time for 2 highland divisions in the SHFL.

Buckie have also beaten Turriff, Wick, Montrose and for that matter Vale this season. There are lots of unpredictable results, some predictable. Just because you get a lot of goals and very few draws doesn't mean we should throw away a system that is generally popular for one that's generally hated.

[Whitburn Vale]

Buckie have also beaten Turriff, Wick, Montrose and for that matter Vale this season. There are lots of unpredictable results, some predictable. Just because you get a lot of goals and very few draws doesn't mean we should throw away a system that is generally popular for one that's generally hated.

I get your point wb, I don't want 2 leagues of ten either wb,like you I prefer only playing each other twice a season in the league. Two leagues of 16 is the way forward with the North juniors,Tayside juniors and NCL feeding into SHFL 2.Will it happen,can't see it happening anytime soon but you can but hope.

[Jacksgranda]

Formartine rattle 10(ten) past mid table Buckie,this is getting ridiculous now,time for change,time for 2 highland divisions in the SHFL.

I get your point wb, I don't want 2 leagues of ten either wb,like you I prefer only playing each other twice a season in the league. Two leagues of 16 is the way forward with the North juniors,Tayside juniors and NCL feeding into SHFL 2.Will it happen,can't see it happening anytime soon but you can but hope.

If you had two divisions of 16, based on current standings, Formartine and Buckie and Clach and Brora would be in the top 16, so you'd still possibly get results like Clach 1 Brora 10 and Formartine 10 Buckie 3.

I remember seeing Elgin beat Buckie 11-1, also numerous 7s, 6s and 5s at Borough Briggs.

I'm sure fans of other Highland League teams could recall similar big - and sometimes inexplicable - scores.

[lionel hutz]

It happens in every league...

Celtic once beat Aberdeen 9-0, Dundee United beat Dundee 6-2, Celtic beat Dundee 6-0

[HibeeJibee]

It's very misleading to suggest that the odd gubbing back in the day, or an odd gubbing in the Scottish Premiership, is similar to the current situation in HL; there were an extraordinary number of thrashings last season and now already this season (just short of 2/3 games played) there have been:

(11 goals) ... 11-0

(10 goals) ... 12-2

(9 goals) ... 9-0, 9-0, 0-9, 1-10

(8 goals) ... 0-8

(7 goals) ... 7-0, 7-0, 7-0, 0-7, 0-7, 0-7, 8-1, 1-8, 1-8, 10-3

(6 goals) ... 6-0, 6-0, 6-0, 6-0, 6-0, 6-0, 0-6, 1-7, 1-7, 2-8

(5 goals) ... 5-0, 5-0, 0-5, 0-5, 0-5, 6-1, 6-1, 6-1, 6-1, 6-1, 1-6

which is 38 hidings. And there were another 15 instances of one club scoring 5 or more in a game, but with a winning margin of 4 or less. Very high.

In comparison, the Lowland League:

(7 goals) ... 0-7

(6 goals) ... 7-1, 2-8

(5 goals) ... 5-0, 0-5

which is only 5 hidings, i.e. about an eighth of HL total. There have also been just 9 instances of one club scoring 5 or more in a game with a winning margin or 4 or less, which is 3/5 of HL's total.

Finally SPFL2:

(5 goals) ... 5-0, 0-5, 1-6

which is just 3 hidings, i.e. under 1/12th of HL total - yet 3/5 of LL's. Also 2 instances of one club scoring 5 or more in a game with a winning margin of 4 or less.

Disparity was pretty similar last season.

It is clearly a problem, or at least undesirable. On a weekend sporting a full HL card you're typically seeing 2 out of 9 games end with one club thrashing another by at least 5 goals, and another 1 of the 9 games will see someone score at least 5 goals.

But the solution? Uncertain.

[HTG]

It's happening every week in the Highland League. It's fine and well wanting an 18 team league but this doesn't look like a league any more because leagues need to brigade teams of something approaching a certain standard. It's a collection of teams of hugely differing capabilities. It can't be of benefit to the top teams to be playing teams they know won't get within 5 goals of them and it can't do much good to be on the other end.

It's not the only league where there is disparity but usually the absolute dross will get emptied at the end of the season. You guys will just do it all again with the same collection. I think your top teams risk seeing their own standards drop over time.

ETA - HJ sets it out better!

[Burnie_man]

Is it not down to money being injected into a few clubs over recent years creating a larger disparity in resources which naturally leads to a lot of these thrashings?

Nothing like that is comparable in the LL as far as I am aware.

Of course, if there was promotion and relegation to the North Junior Superleague that may help.............

[welshbairn]

Most of the gubbings in the last few years have involved 3 teams, Rothes (this season), Fort William and Brora. There are usually lots of competitive, entertaining games on a Saturday. One factor that makes for wildly different performances from week to week is the number of players working offshore or in jobs where they can't always get time off. Makes for fun betting. Believe it or not the second half(missed the 1st) of Clach's thrashing by Brora was good to watch, Clach were still fighting away and got a cracking goal.

P.S. I was unlucky enough to see Falkirk lose 7-1 to Ross County a couple of months ago, not too long after being close to winning the Scottish Cup. That was much more cringeworthy to watch.

[HibeeJibee]

It seems to be down to the ever growing investment in a few teams at the top, plus the lack of any relegation at the bottom (a sort of repeat of the East Stirlingshire of a few years ago); the former sees the best sides getting even better - the latter sees the worst sides having no stronger incentive to improve, nor dropping down a level and being replaced with someone else.

Obvious solutions could include splitting HL into 2 small divisions (so that the best and worst teams weren't playing each other); or starting promotion & relegation into NR SJFA, perhaps while also rebalancing HL & North Superleague to 16-16. What chance of either happening anytime soon, though.

I commend Welshbairn for effort but I think most people would accept the situation is simply undesirable. You could feel it's the lesser evil to splitting or introducing relegation, however, although others would disagree. What if it continues or gets even worse, though?

It is also worth saying that of the 38 thrashings witnessed so far this season, only 20 have involved Brora, Fort William or Rothes so 52% - far from 'most'. Indeed despite their woes - 1pt all season, no win since 2014, etc. - under 1/3 involved Rothes. Under 1/5 involved Brora.

(Also - Falkirk and Ross County are in different divisions, tbf, regardless of the fact that such scorelines are rare in SPFL).

[welshbairn]

52% which is far from 'most'.

Tell that to Better Together.

P.S. I think if you used the last 3 seasons say, like I said, instead of just this half season you'll get a higher percentage. What do you define as a thrashing by the way?

[CityDave]

There is quite a difference in quality from top to bottom of the HL where the top teams can attract the best players in the league and former Scottish League players both experienced and the younger ones who were not getting first team football at the likes of Montrose, Peterhead or Ross County. Then there are the clubs at the bottom who can only cherry pick the best players from the local Junior sides and from the local Amateur Leagues or youngsters who maybe aren't quite ready.

[HibeeJibee]

P.S. I think if you used the last 3 seasons say, like I said, instead of just this half season you'll get a higher percentage. What do you define as a thrashing by the way?

That may well be true. As I say we're about 2/3 the way through this season though (average of 22 out of 34 games played) - but only about 1/2 of the thrashings have involved Brora dishing them out, or Fort William or Rothes receiving them, or both.

I'm clashing a thrashing as one team winning by 5+ goals (i.e. 5-0, 6-1, 6-0 etc.). There have been 38 such... As I say there have been another 15 with 5+ goals scored but lower margins (i.e. 5-1, 5-2, 6-2, etc.).

[welshbairn]

There is quite a difference in quality from top to bottom of the HL where the top teams can attract the best players in the league and former Scottish League players both experienced and the younger ones who were not getting first team football at the likes of Montrose, Peterhead or Ross County. Then there are the clubs at the bottom who can only cherry pick the best players from the local Junior sides and from the local Amateur Leagues or youngsters who maybe aren't quite ready.

There are also a lot of clubs in the middle who regularly provide entertaining and competitive matches, with the added bonus of near total unpredictiblity.