welshbairn Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Falkirk never saved Aberdeen from relegation. They saved us from having to go into a relegation play off with them and Dunfermline. Back on topic as far as I am aware the only way the winners of the Highland League could avoid promotion was by having a ground that did not meet the bronze level licence requirement. They cannot just refuse promotion. They could choose whether or not to make the necessary investment (not very much, just some improvement to the floodlights I think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgecutter Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Actually, this quote from that article is interesting. And should they meet the criteria and repeat their league success, the club's main backer Ben MacKay says they would let the fans to decide on their future. So unless it's shoddy journalism, I see that as them saying they would actually choose whether to go up or not regardless of other factors. Absolutely not on IMO. I fully expect the any promoted club to be forced to comply with floodlight regulations. I expect this will not stop anyone from being promoted even those without lights currently in place. Back to this, would it not also be worth pointing out that due to location / latitude and the associated daylight hours, Highland League grounds are arguably the ones which would need decent floodlights the most? You could of course argue that they manage fine as it is but where's the point on enforcing the stricter rules on the teams further south with more daylight? The difference in light at 4:30 between Wick and Annan can be significant at times of the year btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 So unless it's shoddy journalism, I see that as them saying they would actually choose whether to go up or not regardless of other factors. Absolutely not on IMO. The loophole that enables them to do that was clearly deliberately written in by the powers that be. How difficult would it have been to synchronize the licensing standards of the HL and LL with the membership requirements for entry into SPFL4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Time for another longtimelurker conspiracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Actually, this quote from that article is interesting. So unless it's shoddy journalism, I see that as them saying they would actually choose whether to go up or not regardless of other factors. Absolutely not on IMO. Why should Highland League clubs be forced to join the SPFL 10 team borefest, and play half their games against teams in the Lowland League area, if they don't want to? Don't see what your big principle is here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 The loophole that enables them to do that was clearly deliberately written in by the powers that be. How difficult would it have been to synchronize the licensing standards of the HL and LL with the membership requirements for entry into SPFL4? Yawn. MacKay isn't claiming that anyway, AFAICS? He's saying that if the club is in a position to go up, the fans will decide. Time will tell if that's even permissible. Why should Highland League clubs be forced to join the SPFL 10 team borefest, and play half their games against teams in the Lowland League area, if they don't want to? Don't see what your big principle is here. Going by what I'm reading on FitbaNorth, almost every HL club voted for exactly that? If they didn't want that system, they could have let those which did form the proposed Highland Regional Division. Or have stayed-out en block. Or propose a different one, I suppose. I appreciate points either way, but I'd argue it's probably necessary to get the system started and make it work. It's a responsibility and cost which comes with the rights and benefits of being in the professional game and at tier 5 in the national structure. Brora's sugardaddy says he wants to win HL year-on-year and go no further. What that would also do is stifle everyone else's opportunity of going up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Yawn. MacKay isn't claiming that anyway, AFAICS? He's saying that if the club is in a position to go up, the fans will decide. Time will tell if that's even permissible. Going by what I'm reading on FitbaNorth, almost every HL club voted for exactly that? If they didn't want that system, they could have let those which did form the proposed Highland Regional Division. Or have stayed-out en block. Or propose a different one, I suppose. I appreciate points either way, but I'd argue it's probably necessary to get the system started and make it work. It's a responsibility and cost which comes with the rights and benefits of being in the professional game and at tier 5 in the national structure. Brora's sugardaddy says he wants to win HL year-on-year and go no further. What that would also do is stifle everyone else's opportunity of going up? It seems to be mainly the Lossie boys on Fitbanorth arguing for it, and they haven't a chance in hell of going up anyway, they just have a major hatred for Brora, not sure why. Then you have the problem if a Lowland League wins the playoff, and a Highland league team gets demoted from L2, and vice versa. Do you have to wait till the playoff to find out how many teams get demoted from the HL and LL? Mackay's right, they should first regionalise L1 and L2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Its been said time and time again, regionalisation of L1 is madness and borderline for L2. Of course previously in order to regionalise L2 you had to also regionalise L1, but it may be possible L2 to be bought into HL/LL, if we start having that debate then it may happen, but as long as L1 still gets dragged into the debate it won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I didn't really understand MacKay's point about regionalising SPFL1 and SPFL2, anyway... He talks about it in the context of local derbies, but SPFL North-East would comprise: Elgin, Peterhead... Arbroath, Brechin, Forfar, Montrose... Stenhousemuir, Stirling... Dunfermline, East Fife this season.That's hardly local, infact 4 of the 6 are a very long way from Brora. But that's exactly what you'd expect at what would be tier 3 of the national league system. Regionalisation isn't going to be more likely to come to fruition by clubs opting-out of promotion, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgecutter Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Why should Highland League clubs be forced to join the SPFL 10 team borefest, and play half their games against teams in the Lowland League area, if they don't want to? Don't see what your big principle is here. It's a responsibility and cost which comes with the rights and benefits of being in the professional game and at tier 5 in the national structure. ^^^ This (from HibeeJibee) This may sound harsh, but if they're not willing to accept the responsibility of what winning the HL entails and do the resultant travel then they shouldn't be part of a system which should require that. If they only want to play in the north of Scotland then perhaps they should have an eye on the North Caledonian League with close neighbours Golspie Sutherland. That said, you could potentially and sadly see 'match fixing' if Brora were so incredibly stubborn that they weren't going up in a league that required it (e.g. purposely not winning to avoid finishing top). Brora's sugardaddy says he wants to win HL year-on-year and go no further. What that would also do is stifle everyone else's opportunity of going up? Indeed. It would completely ruin the entire point of finally having the HL as part of the pyramid system if there was no HL side in the playoffs year after year because one team 'didn't fancy it'. Basically, it makes a complete mockery of the new and supposedly improved system which Scottish Football has been needing for years. Imagine if Brechin won the Second Division again and then put it to a fan's vote whether or not we wanted promotion because "we'd probably just get mauled again like the last and there wouldn't be much point in a miserable season other than for the bigger home gates. An extreme example, but nothing to stop that if Brora set the example of just choosing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I don't see why they couldn't just put the highest team below Brora, that's willing and able to meet the SPFL standards, into the Play Offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgecutter Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I don't see why they couldn't just put the highest team below Brora, that's willing and able to meet the SPFL standards, into the Play Offs. Again, what would be your view if Brechin season ticket holders (who own the club) just happened to vote for no promotion to the Championship 'full time league'? Should that be allowed if they beat e.g. Morton in the playoff final to effectively say at the end "hey Morton, fancy our promotion place instead?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 If their ground wasn't up to Championship standards and they didn't spend the money for upgrades, for whatever reason, then why not? Better than the system they used when they wouldn't allow Falkirk to groundshare while they built a new stadium, and decided there would be no demotions from the SPL instead. My main reason for not being keen on promotion, should the chance ever happen to Clachnacuddin, is a big preference for an 18 team league, and with the Cockwomble in charge of all the top four divisions now nothing is likely to change from playing the same sides 4-6 times a season. And a derby match against Nairn 15 mins away is more appealing and probably entertaining than a trip to East Stirlingshire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgecutter Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 If their ground wasn't up to Championship standards and they didn't spend the money for upgrades, for whatever reason, then why not? Better than the system they used when they wouldn't allow Falkirk to groundshare while they built a new stadium, and decided there would be no demotions from the SPL instead. But it is, so I'm asking in the case that there wouldn't be nothing to stop Brechin going up. Brora seem to be saying here that they'd put it to a vote even if Dudgeon Park did meet SPFL criteria. If it was the case that it was simply down to not having the facilities and the vote was for the club shelling out potentially significant amounts to get these, then I would be much more sympathetic... but it's not. My main reason for not being keen on promotion, should the chance ever happen to Clachnacuddin, is a big preference for an 18 team league, and with the Cockwomble in charge of all the top four divisions now nothing is likely to change from playing the same sides 4-6 times a season. And a derby match against Nairn 15 mins away is more appealing and probably entertaining than a trip to East Stirlingshire. A club not being keen on the structure of the league is no proper reason to make a mockery of the system though. Also I could equally say that I'd rather be in a league which regularly have near neighbours Forfar and Arbroath for more derbies rather than the Championship where the closest 'derby' game would be, erm... Raith. No excuse for refusing promotion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calmac25 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 any team turning down promotion should be demoted and suspended from the Scottish Cup for a year. IF its down to facilities they should be given a years grace and if they win the league again and turn down promotion then demote them too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgecutter Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 any team turning down promotion should be demoted and suspended from the Scottish Cup for a year. IF its down to facilities they should be given a years grace and if they win the league again and turn down promotion then demote them too Demoted when winning the league? A tad harsh. Some sort of punishment, maybe even a suspension or maybe better a heavy points deduction for the following season? I wouldn't argue against it too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 You're all a bunch of cockwombles, in my considered opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgecutter Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I prefer the current system where every team has something to play for. With a few games to go, Brechin could have feasibly been both relegated or promoted and I'd rather that situation over a HL style league which is packed full of near-pointless mid-table games towards the end. That's a separate thread in itself though. However, you're yet to answer my previous question regarding Brechin with the real current situation btw. Is it acceptable or not to refuse promotion based on preference alone and if not, why should Brora be allowed to do the same if they do indeed have the facilities. I get the feeling you're missing the point that Brora want to push a vote even if they don't have to upgrade their facilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calmac25 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Demoted when winning the league? A tad harsh. Some sort of punishment, maybe even a suspension or maybe better a heavy points deduction for the following season? I wouldn't argue against it too much. It is a bit harsh but so are points penalties. Watching Hearts last season with the points penalty was tough, I'd have preferred that they were demoted and had something to play for. Say Whitehill Welfare win the lowland league next year, £50,000 for floodlights might be too much for them to pay so couldn't accept there promotion. If they won the league again the following year this would be stopping 4or5 other teams from progressing who feasibly could. In this kind of situation I think it would be fair that a team then had to drop a division if they couldn't (or wouldn't) upgrade there ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgecutter Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 It is a bit harsh but so are points penalties. Watching Hearts last season with the points penalty was tough, I'd have preferred that they were demoted and had something to play for. Say Whitehill Welfare win the lowland league next year, £50,000 for floodlights might be too much for them to pay so couldn't accept there promotion. If they won the league again the following year this would be stopping 4or5 other teams from progressing who feasibly could. In this kind of situation I think it would be fair that a team then had to drop a division if they couldn't (or wouldn't) upgrade there ground. Again, I'm talking about teams that do have the facilities in place and refuse promotion. Maybe a points deduction would mean that they'd struggle to win it again and give the more ambitious sides a chance but then I suppose that in the case of Brora last season, a Hearts style deduction would have made no difference and the next teams down wouldn't qualify either anyway. Bit of a freak season mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.