Ad Lib Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 "we've asked authorities and been guided by their advice and now we've commissioned definitive advice since the Edinburgh Agreement has now been signed". No mea culpa (you should probably look up what that means), no admission, no nothing. What's crystal clear is the fantasyland of pish you live in. When they do it's in their own interest, not the public's. This is irrelevant, anyway. "Asking authorities" =/= "asking your Scottish law officers for advice" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I remember watching that interview and it was not said in the manner you posted,perhaps you could provide a wee link to the video of him saying it. FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I remember watching that interview and it was not said in the manner you posted,perhaps you could provide a wee link to the video of him saying it. Direct quotes. Second video in this page. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-20042069 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-eu-would-want-scotland-1-3270786 So, as we already knew, Scotland would be absorbed into the bowels of the EU in due course. We would have no control over fishing and we would have no rebate and would be a net contributor most likely as we are fabulously wealthy. We will also have to rejoin from outside the EU as a New Country, or a "third country" as the EU beaks seem to call it. I assume this will mean our punters will still have freedom of movement around the place and all that but our state will have no official place in the grand scheme of things until entry details are ironed out in the customary fashion. We will also have to vote on whether these terms and conditions are acceptable to us and if we vote no to that then we don't become a member state. The SNP timescale for all of this has also just been rubbished. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 FFS Just you concentrate on your economy tutorials so you can understand why £50 can be more than £60 when it's used in the proper context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davi3j Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-eu-would-want-scotland-1-3270786 So, as we already knew, Scotland would be absorbed into the bowels of the EU in due course. We would have no control over fishing and we would have no rebate and would be a net contributor most likely as we are fabulously wealthy. We will also have to rejoin from outside the EU as a New Country, or a "third country" as the EU beaks seem to call it. I assume this will mean our punters will still have freedom of movement around the place and all that but our state will have no official place in the grand scheme of things until entry details are ironed out in the customary fashion. We will also have to vote on whether these terms and conditions are acceptable to us and if we vote no to that then we don't become a member state. The SNP timescale for all of this has also just been rubbished. Fair enough. :lol: EU leaders have indicated an independent Scotland would not be a member of the Union at its inception, but would find itself negotiating membership as part of the UK rather than as a completely new member. did you spot this contradiction near the start of the article? How could we be negotiating as "part of the UK" after independence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 :lol: did you spot this contradiction near the start of the article? How could we be negotiating as "part of the UK" after independence? It's possible that an agreement will be reached to treat Scotland, for the purposes of EU law, as though it were still part of the United Kingdom, until an agreement could be reached regarding fuller membership. Quite how you'd go about that isn't clear though. I've previously suggested that actual "independence day" should be flexible, and that all domestic government machinery should aim to be in the hands of the Scottish Government ASAP, but choreograph the international aspects of independence from within the UK, thereby ensuring continuity of effect, without the pressures of a timetable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 :lol: did you spot this contradiction near the start of the article? How could we be negotiating as "part of the UK" after independence? I'm sure.that's what the SNP have been saying all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I'm sure.that's what the SNP have been saying all along. Saying that after independence we'll still be part of the UK... yep. Sounds exactly like what the SNP are offering us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBamboo Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-eu-would-want-scotland-1-3270786 So, as we already knew, Scotland would be absorbed into the bowels of the EU in due course. We would have no control over fishing and we would have no rebate and would be a net contributor most likely as we are fabulously wealthy. We will also have to rejoin from outside the EU as a New Country, or a "third country" as the EU beaks seem to call it. I assume this will mean our punters will still have freedom of movement around the place and all that but our state will have no official place in the grand scheme of things until entry details are ironed out in the customary fashion. We will also have to vote on whether these terms and conditions are acceptable to us and if we vote no to that then we don't become a member state. The SNP timescale for all of this has also just been rubbished. Fair enough. If the terms of membership aren't acceptable to the Scottish people then we shouldn't join, (or remain depending on your point of view). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Saying that after independence we'll still be part of the UK... yep. Sounds exactly like what the SNP are offering us. They said we woul.negotiate terms from within.the EU as part of the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBamboo Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 We seem to have arrived at the conclusion that the SG were either lying, misguided, or being "economical with the truth" initially but have now obtained specific legal advice on this subject which is now "enshrined" in the White Paper. Politicians are "economical with the truth" all the time, this hardly bears comparison with for example the Libdems abandoning their tuition fee policy when they got a sniff of power. (& the many other tall tales that politicians of all colours tell). The technical stuff on this has been done to death - can we get back to the "big picture" please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 We seem to have arrived at the conclusion that the SG were either lying, misguided, or being "economical with the truth" initially but have now obtained specific legal advice on this subject which is now "enshrined" in the White Paper. Politicians are "economical with the truth" all the time, this hardly bears comparison with for example the Libdems abandoning their tuition fee policy when they got a sniff of power. (& the many other tall tales that politicians of all colours tell). The technical stuff on this has been done to death - can we get back to the "big picture" please? According to HMRC's experimental data we contributed oil tax revenues of 80.8% over the period 1999-00 to 2012-13 Is it just coincidence that Tony Blair stole a portion of our oil in 1999 and the HMRC are introducing experimental data starting from then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 If the terms of membership aren't acceptable to the Scottish people then we shouldn't join, (or remain depending on your point of view). Quite. Any mention of us being given a say via referendum on this if we become independent? I can't see anything anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBamboo Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 Quite. Any mention of us being given a say via referendum on this if we become independent? I can't see anything anywhere. I dont know the answer to that offhand but I would think what should happen is; Agreed terms no worse than they are now = no referendum. Proposed terms worse than they are now = referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 We seem to have arrived at the conclusion that the SG were either lying, misguided, or being "economical with the truth" initially but have now obtained specific legal advice on this subject which is now "enshrined" in the White Paper. Politicians are "economical with the truth" all the time, this hardly bears comparison with for example the Libdems abandoning their tuition fee policy when they got a sniff of power. (& the many other tall tales that politicians of all colours tell). The technical stuff on this has been done to death - can we get back to the "big picture" please? They were downright lying. Interesting how wee Ruth blew a hole in their credibility in the very first debate on independence when she produced a letter which said that there had been no contact with the Scottish government at any level about the subject. Something that Acrylic Heid flatly denied at the time. They ran with this line until Salmond was well and truly rumbled on it. If they can't tell the truth about something that basic then why believe anything they say on any other subject? Personally, I don't, they are an absolute rabble out on a power grab using useful idiots or completel and utter morons to do their bidding. Either way, they are doomed to failure. Although I do feel a bit sorry for the clowns that are defendig their actions to the hilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I dont know the answer to that offhand but I would think what should happen is; Agreed terms no worse than they are now = no referendum. Proposed terms worse than they are now = referendum. I don't think option one is available. There has never been a country that joined the EU without its terms being ratified by the population. Who is to decide whether the terms negotiated are no worse than they are now anyway? Our political class? f**k that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davi3j Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I'm sure.that's what the SNP have been saying all along. They said we woul.negotiate terms from within.the EU as part of the UK. Yes, as part of the UK, after a yes vote, but before independence has been declared. This article seem to think we (Scotland) would be negotiating as part of the UK, but after independence day, which, unlike Ad Lib I dont think that would happen because there would then be a conflict of interests as a govenrment has to put the interests of its own population first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sons superhero Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Quite. Any mention of us being given a say via referendum on this if we become independent? I can't see anything anywhere. I would think that one of the political parties would have to promise a referendum on membership in their manifesto for 2016 election post yes vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I would think that one of the politocal parties would have to promise a referendum on membership in their manifesto for 2016 election post yes vote. A referendum has to take place for any new member joining the EU. Nothing to do with election manifestos. The SNP seem to be hell bent on not mentioning this or hoping that they can avoid it completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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