H_B Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Note that he also said :- “They have to resolve a mountain of problems, as Better Together [the Scottish anti-independence campaign group] has explained very well,” he said. “You have to achieve candidate status. You have to negotiate 35 chapters. It has to be ratified by the institutions of the EU. It then has to be ratified by 28 national parliaments.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I have a few questions for the Unionists on here: - As we are all currently in the EU, and on UK passports, we'll all still be EU citizens even if Scotland is excluded. And as I was born in the UK, I can keep the passport, so no problems working/living/doing business in other EU countries. Well Scots wouldn't be EU citizens, "even if Scotland is excluded". The passport thing is a wee bit different. I think it'd be magic if Independent Scotland issued tartan-'coloured' passports. I would prefer mine to be Black Watch, though I can see Royal Stewart being more popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendan Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Actually, they didn't. They said " “If Scotland becomes independent in accordance with the legal and institutional procedures, it will ask for admission [to the EU]. If that process has indeed been legal, that request can be considered. If not, then not" So your interpretation is that when he said 'can be considered', he still meant they would veto it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendan Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Note that he also said :- “They have to resolve a mountain of problems, as Better Together [the Scottish anti-independence campaign group] has explained very well,” he said. “You have to achieve candidate status. You have to negotiate 35 chapters. It has to be ratified by the institutions of the EU. It then has to be ratified by 28 national parliaments.” Yes, that is the normal process, as successfully completed by Romania, Croatia etc. Any reasons to think we couldn't do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendan Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Well Scots wouldn't be EU citizens, "even if Scotland is excluded". They would if they were born in the UK, unless of course they opted to give up UK citizenship. Note that the UK allows dual citizenship, and the SG has said Scotland would, too. I'm a Scot, and I would still be an EU citizen even if Scotland were excluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 So your interpretation is that when he said 'can be considered', he still meant they would veto it? No, I'd interpret "can be considered" to mean they were prepared to consider it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Yes, that is the normal process, as successfully completed by Romania, Croatia etc. Any reasons to think we couldn't do it? No - the Spanish FM merely doubted the SNP's optimistic timetable, not the likelihood of acceptance, which is of course exceptionally high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 No - the Spanish FM merely doubted the SNP's optimistic timetable, not the likelihood of acceptance, which is of course exceptionally high. And of course the quid pro-quo of accelerating such a timetable might involve intense negotiations about the terms of our membership. Anyone would think this was nuanced or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendan Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 No - the Spanish FM merely doubted the SNP's optimistic timetable, not the likelihood of acceptance, which is of course exceptionally high. But I think (can't be arsed checking) that you asked earlier why people thought Barroso might be wrong. He says it would be 'almost impossible' for Scotland to join the EU (different to what others had said, which was simply that we would have to apply as a new country). It seems you accept that Barroso is wrong in his assertion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 But I think (can't be arsed checking) that you asked earlier why people thought Barosso might be wrong. No, I didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendan Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 And of course the quid pro-quo of accelerating such a timetable might involve intense negotiations about the terms of our membership. Anyone would think this was nuanced or something. There might well be, but unlike the situation with the pound (which I admit is the Yes campaign's achilles heel) it is very obviously in both sides interests to negotiate a quick deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 There might well be, but unlike the situation with the pound (which I admit is the Yes campaign's achilles heel) it is very obviously in both sides interests to negotiate a quick deal. That depends really. If the cost to the EU members of doing a "quick deal" was going to be too steep, they wouldn't really be that bothered if it carried on for a while. The SNP have set this arbitrary time period - no one else. No one else is held to it - either the UK or the EU, in negotiations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendan Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 That depends really. If the cost to the EU members of doing a "quick deal" was going to be too steep, they wouldn't really be that bothered if it carried on for a while. The SNP have set this arbitrary time period - no one else. No one else is held to it - either the UK or the EU, in negotiations. True, its a bit daft to set such a short timescale, but the EU have fudged so many issues when they needed to that I don't personally doubt we can at least retain all EU rights/responsibilities (but no vote) during a provisional period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 True, its a bit daft to set such a short timescale, but the EU have fudged so many issues when they needed to that I don't personally doubt we can at least retain all EU rights/responsibilities (but no vote) during a provisional period. That would require every bit as much unanimous consent as a full arrangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I don't personally doubt we can at least retain all EU rights/responsibilities (but no vote) during a provisional period. If that were the case, thre would be no incentive for the SNP to negotiate anything different to this. Would be like trying to join a tennis club and being told "right, until such time as we both agree on the terms of your membership, you'll have full membership rights for the discounted fee of £20 a month". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendan Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 No, I didn't. Well, it was at least implied by: What do you make of a series of EU officials telling the SNP exactly the same thing? Prodi, Rajoy, Barroso... are they all lying? and Do we have an exhaustive list yet of bluffing anti-SNP bullies, who can't be trusted? Prodi Barroso Rajoy Osborne Alexander Balls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Yes, Barroso has previously explained to the SNP (as has his predecessor Romano Prodi) that they will have to apply as a new member to the EU. This came as a surprise to the SNP when they were told this in 2004 and it still seems to be a surprise to them in 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendan Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 If that were the case, thre would be no incentive for the SNP to negotiate anything different to this. Would be like trying to join a tennis club and being told "right, until such time as we both agree on the terms of your membership, you'll have full membership rights for the discounted fee of £20 a month". Well the temporary terms could be our proportionate share of the UK contribution but with no/reduced rebate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendan Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Yes, Barroso has previously explained to the SNP (as has his predecessor Romano Prodi) that they will have to apply as a new member to the EU. This came as a surprise to the SNP when they were told this in 2004 and it still seems to be a surprise to them in 2014. I think the question is whether this can be done from within or not. Anyway, do you agree or disagree with what Barosso said on Sunday (that EU entry would be 'almost impossible')? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I think the question is whether this can be done from within or not. Anyway, do you agree or disagree with what Barosso said on Sunday (that EU entry would be 'almost impossible')? i see no reason why the negotiations can't be accomplished whilst Scotland is still part of the UK. Though it will still require the unanimous consent of all existing members, including referendums where appropriate in their territories to accept Scotland as a new member. No - I disagree with that assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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