LongTimeLurker Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Yes they voted in the referendum as well. http://www.euronews.com/2014/03/08/crimea-s-sevastopol-readies-for-referendum/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_referendum,_2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 What if Putin falls under a bus and is replaced by somebody like Vladimir Zhirinovsky, who isn't as rational? Not saying these scenarios are likely, just pointing out why the precedent would be dangerous. Since 1945, there has been a mentality that international borders in Europe are inviolable without the consent of the sovereign state involved, after what happened in the late 30s. Kosovo introduced a grey area where autonomous regions of disintegrating federations are concerned. The Donbass being annexed by Russia would shatter that completely. With Crimea, Sevastopol is not part of the autonomous republic, so the Rubicon is arguably already being crossed on this stuff. I doubt the Donbas region would willingly allow itself to be absorbed by Russia, they know they couldn't compete on price with Russian coal and metal producers (they can't even compete with the Poles). They clearly resent having their man booted out of power by the Western Ukrainians, backed by the EU, without a vote, and are wary of the more loony Nationalists imposing language restrictions etc., but what they want is proper representation within the Ukraine, possibly more federal rights, and not be ruled by a western clique in Kiev. I don't think Putin has any intention of trying to absorb any more territory, it would just be a huge drain on resources and cause untold shit economically due to the global kerfuffle. He's got the important strategic bit, great publicity back home, the Kiev mob will be shitting their pants and will sit down to do a deal with the South and East, and everyone will forget about it. It's clear an overwhelming majority of Crimeans want to join Russia, no big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Interesting wee map here showing Europe's borders changing over the past 1000 years. Try not to blink or you might miss Ukraine.. http://loiter.co/v/watch-as-1000years-of-european-boarders-change/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blanco Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 The head of the Russian state news agency has said on air that the Russians are capable of turning the US into radioactive ash . He said this against a background of a nuclear mushroom cloud. Is it going to end up all out war or will some middle ground be reached? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 The head of the Russian state news agency has said on air that the Russians are capable of turning the US into radioactive ash . He said this against a background of a nuclear mushroom cloud. Is it going to end up all out war or will some middle ground be reached? Hopefully the latter: http://en.ria.ru/russia/20140317/188516456/Russia-Urges-Ukraine-to-Adopt-Federal-Constitution.html The Russian Foreign Ministry urged the Ukrainian parliament in a statement Monday to convene a constitutional assembly to provide for greater autonomy for the country’s regions, guarantee Russian as a second official language, and enshrine a principle of geopolitical neutrality for the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryfield Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I've been reading a lot of editorials focusing on the possibility of Russia annexing the Crimean peninsula. Is that likely to actually occur? Naw, never. Nae chance whatsoever. 9/10 for observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BossHogg Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 The Russian deputy priminister.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Tattiescone Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Ukrainian government refuses to remove troops from Crimea, prepares for war http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukrainian-government-refuses-to-remove-troops-from-crimea-prepares-for-war-339724.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Naw, never. Nae chance whatsoever. 9/10 for observation. I don't think I ever claimed it wasn't going to happen. I just got the impression that it wasn't something Putin strictly wanted to do. What's your point here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Game, set and match to Putin, I would say.. In advance of President Putin's speech, the prime minister of Ukraine made his own overtures to the Russian-leaning regions of the east not to follow Crimea's path. In a key concession he ruled out an alliance with Nato, addressing one of the prime suspicions of Kiev in the east. Andriy Yatsenyuk also said Kiev was prepared to grant broad autonomy to the eastern regions. Speaking in Russian he said that powers over education, policing and cultural affairs would be transferred to locally elected decision makers. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10704798/Ukraine-crisis-Putin-says-Crimea-inseparable-part-of-Russia.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BossHogg Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 The BBC says the referendum "apparently" shows in favour of joining Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Probably plenty of ballot box stuffing going on. Until last year opinion polls there were showing a pro-Ukraine majority when Yanukovych was in power, so the move to Russian control doesn't appear to be a "settled will" sort of thing, but more a kneejerk reaction to recent events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Reports of a Ukrainian soldier being killed by the russians as they attempt to take over a military base in Crimea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-17/billionaire-usmanov-turns-to-china-after-selling-apple-facebook.html Usmanov sells shares in Facebook and Apple and re-invests in Chinese company Alibaba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Here's an interesting angle to watch on this: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26627236 For the Trans-Dniester region of Moldova to wind up with a land border with Russia all of southern Ukraine would probably need to be annexed by Putin. Any move towards incorporating the Trans-Dniester region will/would be a strong indication that the end game in all of this in territorial terms isn't just Crimea, because as things stand Ukraine and Moldova could easily seal off the borders and strangle the place in economic terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Upbeat future for a Ukrainian officer and tennis fan trapped in Crimea: At Belbek military airport, which has been surrounded by Self-Defence Forces for weeks, Colonel Yuli Manchur said: “It is too late now for the government to start issuing such orders. All this time, when I have been asking the ministry of defence for direction, I have been told to use my initiative. Well, that’s what I shall be doing.” Colonel Manchur and his men had achieved widespread fame after he marched them, unarmed, up the hill to confront the Russians and their special forces this month. He said: “We have not had any intimidation for a few days now, but we know what happened at Sevastopol. The problem is that the Russians have lost control of the Samoobrona; when you give people like these guns, there is going to be trouble. They are a problem for us now, they will be a problem for the Russians in the future.”on some of my own projects moving forward, including playing more events around the world, which I am really enjoying. I will always be in Andy’s corner and wish him nothing but great success as he too goes into a new phase of his career.” http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-crisis-new-face-of-crimea-revealed-as-naval-base-is-stormed-9203524.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Putin's approval ratings shot right back up to at least the highest in two years. Regardless of whether he wanted to fully annex the Crimea or not, it's arguable that the west and their Cold War rhetoric have secured Putin another two terms in office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I'd say it's annexing Crimea and stirring up nationalist pride that has played a major part in Putin's approval ratings. Comments towards the U.S. certainly help though. That said (and tinfoil hat on) he was guaranteed at least another term in office after 2018 anyway. Russia will fall apart when he is eventually removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Aye I would agree but I would argue that he would have had a harder time quelling popular opposition emerging like with the mass demonstrations a couple of years back if the Crimean situation hadn't occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomtown Boy Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Been thinking if I was Obama what could I do to piss the Russians off as much as they have just pissed me off. Invading Cuba an option? Withdraw all McDonald franchises in Russia, same with Coke? The Iranians, sure we could do something to them to fvck them up, that would get up Putins nose. Answers on a postcard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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