gingerjag Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Which is why we'll never go bust and die yous nearly did before...who knows what the futeure holds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbhoy Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 yous nearly did before...who knows what the futeure holds 10 in a row The amount of times Celtic get pumped oot Europe at the first time of asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 It wasn't the worst result ever because it wasn't really unexpected was it? Nuechatl Xamax was, for my money, the worst. No-one had heard of them and Celtic had a pretty decent side at the time and that result was totally unexpected. Nah, that's not true. Neuchtal Xamax were relatively well known. Davie Dodds had gone there before returning to Scotland. Celtic were also in a much worse way then than they are now. They were in the midst of their 6 year spell without a trophy and their decade long one without the title. Indeed, they weren't even managing to finish second at that point. Atrmedia Bratislava was by a distance the funniest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 You can cut back on the valium now that the catastrophic Armageddon has passed. Cataclysmic. Get it right ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Sure this has been posted before, but it's worth reading again. http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/28307088 What a tit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Sure this has been posted before, but it's worth reading again. http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/28307088 What a tit. "maybe one good team" indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Its obviously a big problem for them as well, as despite being champions multiple times, this is the first time ever getting in to the group stage proper. This has already been covered. Given they aren't seeded, they are almost certain to play a much better side, who will trounce them in qualifying, given they are sub-Europa League level minnows. I say "almost" as there is the one shining light for all non-seeded teams to pray for in CL qualifying... Celtic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Sometimes the teams Celtic play against in europe may have less money but they play against better quality opposition every week which can be easily proven by looking at the annual horrendous european performances of every club in Scotland (bar Celtic). Scotland is ahead of both Slovenia and Slovakia in the coefficients, so that's debatable as an excuse for what happened against Maribor and Artmedia Bratislava. If the team rankings are considered non-OF Scottish clubs appear to make more of an impact than the smaller Slovenian clubs (i.e. not Maribor and Olimpija Ljubljana). http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/trank2015.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Nooka Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Scotland is ahead of both Slovenia and Slovakia in the coefficients, so that's debatable as an excuse for what happened against Maribor and Artmedia Bratislava. If the team rankings are considered non-OF Scottish clubs appear to make more of an impact than the smaller Slovenian clubs (i.e. not Maribor and Olimpija Ljubljana). http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/trank2015.html I'd say the fact Slovenia have qualified for 3 major championships since Scotlands last appearance is a better indicator of the comparative quality of Slovenian football rather than the farcical co-efficient rankings used by UEFA. The reason the smaller Scottish Clubs 'appear' to make more of an impact is probably because they get put into qualification a round or 2 later and this is almost entirely due to Celtics results in Europe not their own. It would be an interesting statistic to see just how many games have been won in europe by non-OF teams, I don't think it would make for pretty reading. Aberdeen and St Johnstone may have had a couple of decent results this year but that is definitely the exception rather than the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever_blue Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 coming soon to ra selik superstore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I'd say the fact Slovenia have qualified for 3 major championships since Scotlands last appearance is a better indicator of the comparative quality of Slovenian football rather than the farcical co-efficient rankings used by UEFA. Yep, and yet the second and third best Slovenian teams were papped out with ease in the Europa League qualifiers. Slovenian football isn't good at all. I've been to see Olympic Ljubljana. They are rank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I'd say the fact Slovenia have qualified for 3 major championships since Scotlands last appearance is a better indicator of the comparative quality of Slovenian football rather than the farcical co-efficient rankings used by UEFA. Really? How many Slovenian internationals play in their domestic league? I've also got no idea why you'd think being put through to a later round enhances the co-efficient of Scottish clubs - their earned co-efficient points are based entirely on positive results: which are clearly more difficult to attain once the pub teams from Slovenia and Azerbaijan have been eliminated. You're talking utter, utter shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Really? How many Slovenian internationals play in their domestic league? I've also got no idea why you'd think being put through to a later round enhances the co-efficient of Scottish clubs - their earned co-efficient points are based entirely on positive results: which are clearly more difficult to attain once the pub teams from Slovenia and Azerbaijan have been eliminated. You're talking utter, utter shite. Not entirely true. The coefficient system is set up to ensure that the big leagues stay at the top. As an example, whoever finished 3rd in the EPL last year(Can't remember if it was Liverpool or Chelsea) will start on the same coefficient points as a team who have won all their qualifiers to get to the group stage. That's hardly fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 there is the one shining light for all non-seeded teams to pray for in CL qualifying... Celtic. ...or Steaua Bucharest or Red Bull Salzburg, given they were both seeded and both went out. Or any of the seeded teams who have gone out when we made it through. Or Maccabi Tel Aviv, given they were seeded in the last round and went out to Maribor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueDiamond Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Gannonball...... the is the SECOND tme that Maribor have qualified for the Champions League Group Stages.... The did so in 1999/2000 where they were drawn with Leverkusen, Lazio and Dinamo Kiev. TD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Nooka Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Really? How many Slovenian internationals play in their domestic league? I've also got no idea why you'd think being put through to a later round enhances the co-efficient of Scottish clubs - their earned co-efficient points are based entirely on positive results: which are clearly more difficult to attain once the pub teams from Slovenia and Azerbaijan have been eliminated. You're talking utter, utter shite. Are these Slovenian internationals all Brazilians with a Slovenian passport? Otherwise I would have thought they would have been born and learned their football in Slovenia before moving away to a stronger wealthier league. The best players in Slovenia are good enough to be deemed worthy of signing by clubs from other countries, if we disregard England then we have about 4 players outside Scotland. It's arrogance to suggest we are better than Slovenia when all the facts point to the opposite. The best of Slovenia have beaten the best that Scotland can offer consistently in recent seasons. To give you an idea of how ludicrous UEFA coefficients are, Maribor have only just gone above Rangers who haven't played a European game in over 3 years and the last one they played they were beaten by Maribor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Not entirely true. The coefficient system is set up to ensure that the big leagues stay at the top. As an example, whoever finished 3rd in the EPL last year(Can't remember if it was Liverpool or Chelsea) will start on the same coefficient points as a team who have won all their qualifiers to get to the group stage. That's hardly fair. I stated "co-efficient earned" for a reason. Scotland's base according to Kassie's is 3.230. This correctly puts Scottish sides a qualifying round or two ahead of pub teams from Slovenia: who start from a base of 2.575. But contrary to Tommy Nooka's tear-stained claims, several Scottish sides have more than surpassed that base - meaning they earned serious co-efficient points: Motherwell have 7.73 despite a shambolic outing this season; Dundee United and Hearts 6.23, St Johnstone 5.73. Hibs (!) 4.73, Aberdeen 4.23. All have made significant improvements on the basis of getting results - results earned at a harder level of the competition than Slovenian sides. Olympija have 4.825, Koper 4.325 and the rest are well beneath Aberdeen in the 3s. Which is the pub team ranking. And the co-efficient should absolutely reflect the reality that new European entrants from better leagues will start off superior to the plucky champions of Moldova or some other footballing backwater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Are these Slovenian internationals all Brazilians with a Slovenian passport? Otherwise I would have thought they would have been born and learned their football in Slovenia before moving away to a stronger wealthier league. Answer the question please: how many Slovenian internationals are plying their trade in their domestic league? The best players in Slovenia are good enough to be deemed worthy of signing by clubs from other countries, if we disregard England then we have about 4 players outside Scotland. Erm yes: so if we just disregard the richest and most approximate league - the league which serves as a natural upward step and scouts Scottish football more intensively than the rest of Europe's scouts put together, then Scotland 'only' has about four players outside its domestic league. But why would we disregard England at all? Or indeed, disregard the number of players in a much stronger Scottish league than in Slovenia. It's arrogance to suggest we are better than Slovenia when all the facts point to the opposite. Well no they don't - Scotland's international side now is better than Slovenia's. Scottish teams do better in Europe than Slovenian teams. Scotland's domestic game is far wealthier than Slovenia's, partly by virtue of actually having fans attend matches. Maribor are the highest-supported team in Slovenia, and attract crowds that would look ordinary in any season of the Scottish Championship. They attract fewer people to games than Falkirk. The best of Slovenia have beaten the best that Scotland can offer consistently in recent seasons. Well given Scottish sides have reached two European finals since the turn of the century, while no Slovenian side has ever came close to a European final - Scottish clubs have both made it to and through the group stages on European competitions frequently; Slovenian sides do not - it is categoric to state that you are talking, once again, utter shite. To give you an idea of how ludicrous UEFA coefficients are, Maribor have only just gone above Rangers who haven't played a European game in over 3 years and the last one they played they were beaten by Maribor. Yes: because Maribor have been so piss-poor in Europe that three years' of results can't overhaul historic success by Scottish clubs. Tl;dr - There is simply no excuse for Celtic's own, entirely self-inflicted failure against a complete pub team. It is not the fault of Scottish football: other Scottish sides would comfortably beat their Slovenian counterparts. And the gulf in resources between Celtic and the rest in Scottish football is orders of magnitude greater than between the Falkirk and Ayr Uniteds of Slovenia, shuffling their way into European football. Gutted for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Though it's certainly understandable to see the tear-stained Celtic one having a tantrum about the UEFA co-efficient: after all, as of this week's hilarious fail, Celtic are now ranked lower than the behemoths of European football, APOEL Nicosia, from a bankrupt micro-state in the Mediterranean with an abysmal domestic league. Unlucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy85 Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 To clarify, Celtic are fucking shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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