Shtuggie Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 You got any tatties to go with that mince? BANTER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 PAOK are 49th, APOEL 52nd, BATE 57th: all far ahead of the likes of Real Sociedad, Besiktas, Fenerbace or Fiorentina. And deservedly so. So the system quite clearly allows for teams from smaller countries to climb well up the rankings - they just have to be good enough to do so, which is the underlying issue. I think the issue is more the financial disparity. If PAOK, Apoel or BATE put together a decent side and moved up the rankings, they would quickly see their team sold off and playing for the likes of Sociedad, Besiktas, Fenerbace or Fiorentina. There is probably no answer that would solve the issues I guess, beyond some diddy team discovering the next Baresi, Zidane and Messi in the same u16 school team and getting them tied down for a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtuggie Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 As I said, the introduction of the Champions route in the qualifying is a very good start. I still feel the coefficient points could perhaps be linked to the coefficient for the team you beat. You would receive slightly more points for beating Real Madrid for example, as opposed to Celtic. Not enough that 1 result would skew it ridiculously of course. I think the issue is more the financial disparity. If PAOK, Apoel or BATE put together a decent side and moved up the rankings, they would quickly see their team sold off and playing for the likes of Sociedad, Besiktas, Fenerbace or Fiorentina. There is probably no answer that would solve the issues I guess, beyond some diddy team discovering the next Baresi, Zidane and Messi in the same u16 school team and getting them tied down for a few years. I think we have maybe arrived at the point you have been trying to make. It is much much harder for teams to break into the monopoly that the European Elite have. The finances and prestige of such teams make it much harder for the smaller or newer teams to compete on a regular basis, less so the more than agreeable coefficient system at UEFA that you are taking issue with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I think we have maybe arrived at the point you have been trying to make. It is much much harder for teams to break into the monopoly that the European Elite have. The finances and prestige of such teams make it much harder for the smaller or newer teams to compete on a regular basis, less so the more than agreeable coefficient system at UEFA that you are taking issue with. That's part of it. I'm just starting to see the game get a bit stale at the top end. For all it is great to see the best players on show at the business end of the contest year in year out, there are only so many Chelsea v Barcelona games you can take before it starts to be a bit less glamorous. The occasional underdog in the last 8 or last 4 would at least give us a decent outsider to back. I think APOEL in 2011/12 were the last real diddy to make any kind of serious impact in the competition in getting to the quarters. It would be good to see that a bit more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtuggie Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 That's part of it. I'm just starting to see the game get a bit stale at the top end. For all it is great to see the best players on show at the business end of the contest year in year out, there are only so many Chelsea v Barcelona games you can take before it starts to be a bit less glamorous. The occasional underdog in the last 8 or last 4 would at least give us a decent outsider to back. I think APOEL in 2011/12 were the last real diddy to make any kind of serious impact in the competition in getting to the quarters. It would be good to see that a bit more often. Ah so you are a bit of a romantic? Perhaps European football isn't for you? Although it would have been nice for Atletico Madrid to win it last year, as it was a little bit less stale. The Champions league is the European show-piece, and will regularly be contested by the teams you have described - it is exactly about pitting the best players from European football against each other. Luckily for you, the British game offers romanticism in its hugely prestigious knockout competitions which have offered up a veritable smorgasbord of upsets over the years and offer the chance for the smaller teams to claim a scalp or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 A team winning 6 games in a competition should receive more coefficient points than a team who win no games in a competition. That's another way of looking at it. why? considering out of the 6 wins, 4 will be against a team from the same standard pub league and 2 seemingly will be against teams on par if not slightly, just slightly better is it the bigger teams fault that they have performed better and more consistently over the years to the point where they dont have to play the arse end of european football just to qualify Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Ah so you are a bit of a romantic? Perhaps European football isn't for you? Although it would have been nice for Atletico Madrid to win it last year, as it was a little bit less stale. The Champions league is the European show-piece, and will regularly be contested by the teams you have described - it is exactly about pitting the best players from European football against each other. Luckily for you, the British game offers romanticism in its hugely prestigious knockout competitions which have offered up a veritable smorgasbord of upsets over the years and offer the chance for the smaller teams to claim a scalp or two. My other half would take serious issue with anyone describing me as a bit of a romantic. Atletico are a good example I guess, in the context of Spain being dominated by Barca and Real. It's good to see someone outside the usual suspects do something, and healthy for the game. Regards the FA Cup - Going back to 20 years and only Portsmouth and Wigan would really be classed as underdogs, even then Portsmouth were massive favourites v Cardiff. The Scottish Cup, and the League Cup over the last 5 or 6 years have thrown up plenty of surprise winners. Who actually though St Johnstone would ever get round to winning a proper trophy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 why? considering out of the 6 wins, 4 will be against a team from the same standard pub league and 2 seemingly will be against teams on par if not slightly, just slightly better is it the bigger teams fault that they have performed better and more consistently over the years to the point where they dont have to play the arse end of european football just to qualify You missed my point about Malmo and who they have knocked out this year. They did not beat pub teams. Theoretically, Burnley could fluke a 3rd place finish in the EPL and be thrown straight into the group stages of the Champions League. Where was their great performance and consistency over the years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calum_gers Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 You missed my point about Malmo and who they have knocked out this year. They did not beat pub teams. Theoretically, Burnley could fluke a 3rd place finish in the EPL and be thrown straight into the group stages of the Champions League. Where was their great performance and consistency over the years? Finishing third in any league is not a "fluke". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 You missed my point about Malmo and who they have knocked out this year. They did not beat pub teams. Theoretically, Burnley could fluke a 3rd place finish in the EPL and be thrown straight into the group stages of the Champions League. Where was their great performance and consistency over the years? and in getting thrown into the CL they will be 4th seeds and get 3 teams easily better than them, get thumped 6 times and lose points for the future seasons, this will also cost the EPL points and potentially cost them their 3 automatic places, so therefore everyone loses why should the likes of maribor etc get 6 games, 4 against diddies, to build up a co-efficient while teams like man city get thrown in as 4th seeds for the group stages and have a bigger chance of losing more points say maribor earn 6 points for winning the 6 qualifying games, then lose all 6 group games and lose 6 points, the finish their european season on a level par if city get thrown in to the group stages, lose all 6 games and therefore 6 points, they find their co-efficient is worse than it was at the start of the season, yet both teams finished the competition in the same manner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Celtic strolled the league last year and are the best Scotland has to offer and will stroll the league this year and be the Scottish Champions again. Yes, and will likely fail in a humiliating fashion again to reach the CL group stages, unless the current clueless manager and group of comically poor players are emptied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I think the issue is more the financial disparity. If PAOK, Apoel or BATE put together a decent side and moved up the rankings, they would quickly see their team sold off and playing for the likes of Sociedad, Besiktas, Fenerbace or Fiorentina. There is probably no answer that would solve the issues I guess, beyond some diddy team discovering the next Baresi, Zidane and Messi in the same u16 school team and getting them tied down for a few years. Ah right, here was me thinking you had a genuine concern about co-efficient, rather than just a generic #amf whinge. Continue by all means, I won't be listening though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 and in getting thrown into the CL they will be 4th seeds and get 3 teams easily better than them, get thumped 6 times and lose points for the future seasons, this will also cost the EPL points and potentially cost them their 3 automatic places, so therefore everyone loses why should the likes of maribor etc get 6 games, 4 against diddies, to build up a co-efficient while teams like man city get thrown in as 4th seeds for the group stages and have a bigger chance of losing more points say maribor earn 6 points for winning the 6 qualifying games, then lose all 6 group games and lose 6 points, the finish their european season on a level par if city get thrown in to the group stages, lose all 6 games and therefore 6 points, they find their co-efficient is worse than it was at the start of the season, yet both teams finished the competition in the same manner Who mentioned anything about losing points? If Man City lose all 6 games they should pick up no additional points, that's entirely fair. I would also say that I think that as they have been placed straight into the group stages as domestic champions, they should be in pot 1 as domestic champions(Well, they should take the ranking of the highest placed English team with the rest moving down accordingly) in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Celtic strolled the league last year and are the best Scotland has to offer and will stroll the league this year and be the Scottish Champions again. You really do spout the most utter mince imaginable ... Is he off to pick you up? Edit: Certainly found the idiot ... noo put down the mirror and stop posing for selfies. Yes you will - and yet you were humiliated, twice (and counting) by vastly inferior opponents, in terms of size and resources available. Just like you were humiliated last season in cup competition by the worst full-time side in the country. Or by Ross County in the Scottish Cup a few years ago. So... experts in failure then, and without Champions League football to justify the season books we'll just how many of life's losers continue to slither into your ground every fortnight. Sub-20,000 crowds on a regular basis. Still; at least you're not still utterly reeling after your exit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Great question .. but since he is already stating that the Slovenian league is better than the Scottish mince on offer .. pretty redundant and somewhat circular. On maybe it escaped you? Stated, and duly destroyed. Feel free to step up while he's sobbing uncontrollably "picking up his wean from school" - somehow I don't think he'll be coming back using this line. Unless watching Celtic's European shame has made him a glutton for humiliation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Ah right, here was me thinking you had a genuine concern about co-efficient, rather than just a generic #amf whinge. Continue by all means, I won't be listening though. Actually, it's a bit of both. And I wouldn't say it's an #amf whinge, though it would be interesting* to see a few teams go 235 these days. *It wouldn't be that interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Though it's certainly understandable to see the tear-stained Celtic one having a tantrum about the UEFA co-efficient: after all, as of this week's hilarious fail, Celtic are now ranked lower than the behemoths of European football, APOEL Nicosia, from a bankrupt micro-state in the Mediterranean with an abysmal domestic league. Unlucky. APOEL who have played in the last 8 of the CL in the last 5 years, negotiating their way by Porto, Zenit, Shakhtar and Lyon? Clearly one of Europe's elite and no shame to be in that company. I propose they join Celtic in the European super league some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Great question .. but since he is already stating that the Slovenian league is better than the Scottish mince on offer .. Yeah, what exactly is he basing that on? Is it the humbling of the second best team in Slovenia by some Azerbaijani goat herders or the destruction of the 3rd best team in Slovenia by some Albanian yak combers? If Ronnie Mowbray had been in charge last season, Celtic certainly wouldn't have won the title by as many points as they did. It's admirable in a way that you have dispensed with medicrity in the shape of Lennon, and replaced it with incompetence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 The European Cup was destroyed as a potential fairytale moment for smaller clubs the moment the league system was introduced. It was engineered and designed to keep smaller clubs from progressing and ensure that armchair viewers are catered for and not club fans (unless you are a fan of one of the big guns). There's absolutely nothing wrong with two leg ties and a good old fashioned draw with no seeds after the qualifiers. Everything else is to ensure the big clubs get more money spinning ties each season .... Unfortunately the smaller clubs that qualify now will never get the benefit of a run due to luck of the draw, player suspensions, injuries and other teams doing the giant killing acts .... the league is 'theirs' to weed that out. Ruined it if you ask me ... To be honest, I think the group stages work well as a spectacle and for fans of the smaller clubs, I just feel they could tweak the seedings a bit to give the diddies a bit more of a chance. The big teams will still end up there or there abouts most of the time. It certainly hasn't ruined the tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Dhen getting warmed up for his usual post euro humiliation meltdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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