Does anyone here believe we can't use the pound?

[Tio Pepe]

Keep the pound, CU...

We're being told by the antis that it "won't" happen. It will.

As to the Union - I guess 'parts' of us are independent already. We just want the rest. Though to be fair, 'parts' of the UK are not independent either, not least our expensive nuclear 'deterrent' which we pay for, but needs say-so from the US if we actually want to use it.

You do realise that continuing to use the pound and a currency union are not the same thing?

[H_B]

You do realise that continuing to use the pound and a currency union are not the same thing?

I'm really not sure he does.

It's staggering to imagine that might be the case

[1320Lichtie]

Seen this photo on a YES page. Thoughts?

[H_B]

Initial thoughts are that this cretin shouldn't be allowed to vote, having advertised their stupidity on social media.

[1320Lichtie]

Backed up with these comments after questioning.

This is just backing up everything I thought of that section of the debate. However, if there was no currency union and the pound that we use would be backed by the Scottish banks instead of BoE, would we be in danger of being given a poor credit rating thus harming rates etc? That is something I have read in various outlets and don't know enough about to be able to respond?

Standard and Poors published a report in feb 2014 which is now on Business for Scotland stating that Scotland would be 'investment-grade' and no reason we couldn't float our own currency. As I understand it, it doesn't necessarily equate immediately to AAA, but does mean that we'd be regarded internationally as viable, worthwhile and our per capita GDP would be larger than that of the uk giving us the means to afford borrowing. If you Google Scotland Standard and Poors you should find the Business for Scotland link, that may help answer your questions.

[Crùbag]

You do realise that continuing to use the pound and a currency union are not the same thing?

Do you realise what the title of the thread is?

[1320Lichtie]

An independent Scotland can use the pound and will be able to flourish without a formal agreement with Westminster, according to one of the world’s leading think tanks.

The Research Director of the Adam Smith Institute, Sam Bowman, has said that "the UK’s obstinacy would be Scotland's opportunity." adding that the pound should remain Scotland's currency and simply be pegged to Sterling should London block an agreement.

Commenting on the issue of currency, Mr Bowman, said:

"An independent Scotland could flourish either by using the pound sterling without the permission of the rUK or by setting up a 'ScotPound' pegged to sterling through a currency board, which would achieve a similar end."

Citing as examples several countries that use the US Dollar without official agreement with the US Government, Mr Bowman added that a newly independent Scotland would be bound to act in a more fiscally cautious fashion:

"Because Scottish banks would not have access to a currency-printing lender of last resort, they would have to make their own provisions for illiquidity, and would necessarily act more prudently.

"Scotland actually had this system of 'free banking' during the 18th and 19th centuries, during which time its economy boomed relative to England’s and its banks were remarkably secure. And Panama, which uses the US Dollar in this way, has the seventh most stable financial system in the world."

The intervention followed Tuesday night's TV debate which saw First Minister Alex Salmond take on Better Together head Alistair Darling.

In the exchange the leader of the No campaign focused on the issue of currency, repeatedly demanding a Plan B from Mr Salmond. However the First Minister refused to be drawn on possible blocking moves by London and insisted a currency agreement would be in the interests of both Scotland and the rUK.

Mr Bowman added: "Everyone says Mr Salmond needs a Plan B if the rUK does not agree to a currency union with Scotland. But unilateral adoption should be Plan A, making Scotland’s economy more stable and secure. The UK’s obstinacy would be Scotland’s opportunity."

The Adam Smith Institute is an independent, non-profit and non-partisan organisation based in London and is one of the world’s leading think tanks.

The issue has dominated the pro-Union media with most outlets claiming Mr Darling had beaten the First Minister. However polling carried out after the debate has suggested that Mr Salmond was the clear winner amongst the vital 'undecided' group of voters.

[ayrmad]

Who the fcuk's Adam Smith.

[yoda]

Wasn't there a currency union between the UK and the US in the form of the Bretton Woods agreement? Or is my history sketchy?

My knowledge of Bretton Woods is okay but my memory is sketchy on the whole thing, so this is a really simplistic answer:

It wasn't a currency union per se because no shared currency was used. It would be more accurate to describe it as an exchange rate system.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

You do realise that continuing to use the pound and a currency union are not the same thing?

The KAK/NCC don't understand the difference.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

An independent Scotland can use the pound and will be able to flourish without a formal agreement with Westminster, according to one of the world’s leading think tanks.

The Research Director of the Adam Smith Institute, Sam Bowman, has said that "the UK’s obstinacy would be Scotland's opportunity." adding that the pound should remain Scotland's currency and simply be pegged to Sterling should London block an agreement.

Commenting on the issue of currency, Mr Bowman, said:

"An independent Scotland could flourish either by using the pound sterling without the permission of the rUK or by setting up a 'ScotPound' pegged to sterling through a currency board, which would achieve a similar end."

Citing as examples several countries that use the US Dollar without official agreement with the US Government, Mr Bowman added that a newly independent Scotland would be bound to act in a more fiscally cautious fashion:

"Because Scottish banks would not have access to a currency-printing lender of last resort, they would have to make their own provisions for illiquidity, and would necessarily act more prudently.

"Scotland actually had this system of 'free banking' during the 18th and 19th centuries, during which time its economy boomed relative to England’s and its banks were remarkably secure. And Panama, which uses the US Dollar in this way, has the seventh most stable financial system in the world."

The intervention followed Tuesday night's TV debate which saw First Minister Alex Salmond take on Better Together head Alistair Darling.

In the exchange the leader of the No campaign focused on the issue of currency, repeatedly demanding a Plan B from Mr Salmond. However the First Minister refused to be drawn on possible blocking moves by London and insisted a currency agreement would be in the interests of both Scotland and the rUK.

Mr Bowman added: "Everyone says Mr Salmond needs a Plan B if the rUK does not agree to a currency union with Scotland. But unilateral adoption should be Plan A, making Scotland’s economy more stable and secure. The UK’s obstinacy would be Scotland’s opportunity."

The Adam Smith Institute is an independent, non-profit and non-partisan organisation based in London and is one of the world’s leading think tanks.

The issue has dominated the pro-Union media with most outlets claiming Mr Darling had beaten the First Minister. However polling carried out after the debate has suggested that Mr Salmond was the clear winner amongst the vital 'undecided' group of voters.

Countries using the US dollar exclusively:

British Virgin Islands

Caribbean Netherlands (from 1 January 2011)

East Timor (uses its own coins)

Ecuador (uses its own coins in addition to U.S. coins; Ecuador adopted the US dollar as its legal tender in 2000.)

El Salvador

Marshall Islands

Federated States of Micronesia (Micronesia used the US dollar since 1944)

Palau (Palau adopted the US dollar since 1944)

Panama (uses its own coins in addition to U.S. coins. This country has adopted the US dollar as legal tender since 1904.)

Turks and Caicos Islands

Either countries too small to have an effective currency or economic basket cases.

[Tio Pepe]

Do you realise what the title of the thread is?

Indeed I do. You seem to have forgotten that I was responding to a post of yours that contained the following:

"but here's more support for a CU from an English economist"

You then copied an article which showed no support whatsoever for a currency union. In fact the only union it supported was the current union that you are apparently voting against.

[1320Lichtie]

Seen this photo on a YES page. Thoughts? ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1407421549.157480.jpg

So is this just a heap of shite then and can someone tell me why it is a heap of shite? Genuine question.

[bunkmedal]

So is this just a heap of shite then and can someone tell me why it is a heap of shite? Genuine question.

Most of that is based on the old "if we don't get a currency union we won't take on any of the debt" faux-hardball gibberish that even most Yes supporters stopped using months ago.

If we need an explanation, there are a huge number of issues that have to be negotiated with the rest of the UK post-independence. The currency and the debt are simply two of them. The idea that you can go into that negotiation demanding something that's completely indefensible (not taking on any of the national debt) and expect to get anything in return is just pie in the sky nonsense. No Westminster government in their right mind would even begin a negotiation until we moved our position on the debt. It's a bit like Westminster saying they'd demand a per capita share of oil and gas revenue and a permanent agreement to maintain Trident in Scotland if they don't get everything they want (indefensible rhetoric that would have nothing whatsoever to do with how an actual negotiation would take place).

The link even seems to suggest that Salmond didn't have an answer to the currency question because it would "take too long to explain" in the time available, which is pretty absurd at the best of times.

[yoda]

So is this just a heap of shite then and can someone tell me why it is a heap of shite? Genuine question.

Which "Scottish banks" will be backing the pound? Sure some Scottish banks can print currency (three, IIRC) but they can't set inflation or monetary policy. Monetary policy will be dictated by the Bank Of England, even if we keep the £ without asking.

[1320Lichtie]

Which "Scottish banks" will be backing the pound? Sure some Scottish banks can print currency (three, IIRC) but they can't set inflation or monetary policy. Monetary policy will be dictated by the Bank Of England, even if we keep the £ without asking.

I dunno I never posted it. And yeah stolen from here this is my understanding of it if a CU isn't agreed. (By the way I'm certain one would be agreed.... Anyhow)

If a CU is not agreed then we can use the pound regardless outwith that. We've next to no say on what the Bank of England does now, so not a lot would change even if we had no say on rUK monetary policy. Our economy would probably be close to the UK average, so policies designed for rUK should suit us reasonably well.

[P45]

It's good to see Scottish Labour are still utterly rattled by the mere existence of Salmond.

No wonder Cameron had to send an WM MP up to represent BT when this is the best of them in Scotland.

[Confidemus]

Most of that is based on the old "if we don't get a currency union we won't take on any of the debt" faux-hardball gibberish that even most Yes supporters stopped using months ago.

If we need an explanation, there are a huge number of issues that have to be negotiated with the rest of the UK post-independence. The currency and the debt are simply two of them. The idea that you can go into that negotiation demanding something that's completely indefensible (not taking on any of the national debt) and expect to get anything in return is just pie in the sky nonsense. No Westminster government in their right mind would even begin a negotiation until we moved our position on the debt. It's a bit like Westminster saying they'd demand a per capita share of oil and gas revenue and a permanent agreement to maintain Trident in Scotland if they don't get everything they want (indefensible rhetoric that would have nothing whatsoever to do with how an actual negotiation would take place).

The link even seems to suggest that Salmond didn't have an answer to the currency question because it would "take too long to explain" in the time available, which is pretty absurd at the best of times.

Typical No voter.

It's negotiation. Not a list of Westminster demands. We can play hardball too. Your lack of faith in your own country is an utter embarrassment.

[Baxter Parp]

Which "Scottish banks" will be backing the pound? Sure some Scottish banks can print currency (three, IIRC) but they can't set inflation or monetary policy. Monetary policy will be dictated by the Bank Of England, even if we keep the £ without asking.

Interest rates don't= monetary policy.

[bunkmedal]

Typical No voter.

It's negotiation. Not a list of Westminster demands. We can play hardball too. Your lack of faith in your own country is an utter embarrassment.

So your response to a post saying "both sides can play hardball" is "we can play hardball too". Brilliant.

I actually side with Jim Sillars on this one. Although his argument overlooks some of the negatives of having a new Scottish currency rather than a currency union (which Salmond is quite right to point out) on a political level he's completely correct. If you did make the argument that an independent Scottish currency pegged to the pound was the plan B it would be far more convincing for undecided voters and we wouldn't have had Salmond floundering around trying desperately not to answer Darling's question (albeit Darling would have still critiqued the idea of an independent Scottish currency, but it wouldn't have been half as problematic as having no answer to the question at all).