Does anyone here believe we can't use the pound?

[nowthennowthen]

Typical No voter.

It's negotiation. Not a list of Westminster demands. We can play hardball too. Your lack of faith in your own country is an utter embarrassment.

How did the negotiations of what went on the ballot paper go?

[git-intae-thum]

The most likely reason for not reaching agreement over CU would be over fiscal policy. If iScotland wanted a policy that was at odds with rUK's (and that could be a strong possibility) then it's hard to see how agreement could be reached that wasn't favourable to rUK.

If iScotland takes the sterlingisation route it means having no input at all into monetary policy. iScotland could cope in the short-run but it's not really sustainable in the long-run. An iCurrency would be the only realistic route as a long-term solution.

Thats very probably true. The end result at some point may well be a new currency.

However its the sheer lies that are being told. When was the UK ever lender of last resort? Despicable.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Thats very probably true. The end result at some point may well be a new currency.

However its the sheer lies that are being told. When was the UK ever lender of last resort? Despicable.

Lender of last resort would be the least of my worries if we went the sterlingisation route.

It just seems to me, in terms of the currency debate, that the SNP Government played it far too safe - they didn't want to be seen rocking the boat with an iCurrency.

[git-intae-thum]

I think there is a strong possibility that we will end up with our own currency.

Just out of interest, what makes you so worried by sterlingisation.

[AUFC90]

Lender of last resort would be the least of my worries if we went the sterlingisation route.

It just seems to me, in terms of the currency debate, that the SNP Government played it far too safe - they didn't want to be seen rocking the boat with an iCurrency.

I have seen you bang on a few times now about how terrible sterlingisation would be. I don't know much about it... Maybe you could tell us the pros and cons of this option. I don't accept the lender of last resort line though. Of course the UK would bail out a company such as standard life who do most of their business in England. So.... Pros and Cons ?

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I have seen you bang on a few times now about how terrible sterlingisation would be. I don't know much about it... Maybe you could tell us the pros and cons of this option. I don't accept the lender of last resort line though. Of course the UK would bail out a company such as standard life who do most of their business in England. So.... Pros and Cons ?

In the short run sterlingisation would give stability and confidence to the financial markets but at the expense of iScotland losing complete control over monetary policy - no input at all in the setting of interest rates, complete loss of control over exchange rates. Any devaluation (or revaluation for that matter) would be completely outwith out control.

There would be a consequential knock-on effect in terms of fiscal policy and financing of fiscal deficits.

CU does have similar criticisms but at least there would be some sort of input into key monetary decisions - well dependent on the nature of a deal negotiated.

That I don't believe is really beneficial in the long run.

[git-intae-thum]

You state it is due to Scotland having no input in fiscal policy.

Well we do not have any input at the moment. Current UK fiscal policy is aimed solely at preventing inflation/stagnation in the South East/London.

Having a seperate exchequer gives us the opportunity to print money that is true. If worst came to worst then a seperate exchequer could inflate its way out of trouble through quantitative easing.

But surely that is a big part of the shit we are in at the moment.

The whole reason that the banks etc got us into bother is that they lacked a tight regulatory control, encouraging them to speculate. They were happy to stretch beyond their means as they probably were aware they would be bailed out.

The resultant consequential ie quantitative easing and the ability to print currency has effectively made us all poorer.

It could be argued that not having that ability would make institutions operating in an independent Scotland more responsible.

In the event then of a CU rejection, it might not be all bad.

(This is all hypothetical cos there will be a CU????)

[git-intae-thum]

I have to quantify my previous post by stating that my preferred outcome in the medium term is a new currency.

But sterling will do just fine for the next couple of years.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

You state it is due to Scotland having no input in fiscal policy.

Well we do not have any input at the moment. Current UK fiscal policy is aimed solely at preventing inflation/stagnation in the South East/London.

Having a seperate exchequer gives us the opportunity to print money that is true. If worst came to worst then a seperate exchequer could inflate its way out of trouble through quantitative easing.

But surely that is a big part of the shit we are in at the moment.

The whole reason that the banks etc got us into bother is that they lacked a tight regulatory control, encouraging them to speculate. They were happy to stretch beyond their means as they probably were aware they would be bailed out.

The resultant consequential ie quantitative easing and the ability to print currency has effectively made us all poorer.

It could be argued that not having that ability would make institutions operating in an independent Scotland more responsible.

In the event then of a CU rejection, it might not be all bad.

(This is all hypothetical cos there will be a CU)

If you want independence then why immediately give up the one thing that makes you an independent country?

[git-intae-thum]

Oops I think my addendum was just no quick enough.

Again we have no input as it stands.

Sterling with or without CU for a couple of years to find our feet. Then launch the Scottish krone????

[Taza]

Actual conversation I overheard in bar tonight:- Man at bar says ''So why are you voting no? is it parental influence?'' Girl behind bar replies ''No, I make my own decisions''. Man at bar asks '' What are your reasons for voting No then?'' Girl behind bar replies ''I'll lose my house and taxes will go up'' Man at bar exclaims ''Who the fk told you that?'' Girl behind bar replies ''My mum''.

True story.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

You state it is due to Scotland having no input in fiscal policy.

Not quite - I said it could limit fiscal policy - there is a difference.

Well we do not have any input at the moment. Current UK fiscal policy is aimed solely at preventing inflation/stagnation in the South East/London.

Actually it's not fiscal policy but monetary policy that does that.

Having a seperate exchequer gives us the opportunity to print money that is true. If worst came to worst then a seperate exchequer could inflate its way out of trouble through quantitative easing.

And sterlingisation would mean no input at all into such devaluation decisions.

But surely that is a big part of the shit we are in at the moment.

The whole reason that the banks etc got us into bother is that they lacked a tight regulatory control, encouraging them to speculate. They were happy to stretch beyond their means as they probably were aware they would be bailed out.

I don't think it had anything to do with them thinking they'd be bailed out - it was down to pure short-term greed and arrogance that they were always going to win

The resultant consequential ie quantitative easing and the ability to print currency has effectively made us all poorer.

It could be argued that not having that ability would make institutions operating in an independent Scotland more responsible.

I think it's something more fundamental but that's another debate.

In the event then of a CU rejection, it might not be all bad.

Only if there were an iCurrency in the long run.

(This is all hypothetical cos there will be a CU)

Getting agreement on fiscal deficits and input from both sides into monetary decisions could be problematic. iScotland negotiators would have a hard time trying to sell a deal which was seen as too favourable to rUK.

Actually in the long run I think we are both singing from the same song sheet - an iCurrency is the only long-term sustainable solution.

[Taza]

Not quite - I said it could limit fiscal policy - there is a difference.

Well we do not have any input at the moment. Current UK fiscal policy is aimed solely at preventing inflation/stagnation in the South East/London.

Actually it's not fiscal policy but monetary policy that does that.

Having a seperate exchequer gives us the opportunity to print money that is true. If worst came to worst then a seperate exchequer could inflate its way out of trouble through quantitative easing.

And sterlingisation would mean no input at all into such devaluation decisions.

But surely that is a big part of the shit we are in at the moment.

The whole reason that the banks etc got us into bother is that they lacked a tight regulatory control, encouraging them to speculate. They were happy to stretch beyond their means as they probably were aware they would be bailed out.

I don't think it had anything to do with them thinking they'd be bailed out - it was down to pure short-term greed and arrogance that they were always going to win

The resultant consequential ie quantitative easing and the ability to print currency has effectively made us all poorer.

It could be argued that not having that ability would make institutions operating in an independent Scotland more responsible.

I think it's sonething more fundamental but that's another debate.

In the event then of a CU rejection, it might not be all bad.

Only if there were an iCurrency in the long run.

(This is all hypothetical cos there will be a CU)

Getting agreement on fiscal deficits and input from both sides into monetary decisions could be problematic. iScotland negotiators would have a hard time trying to sell a deal which was seen as too favourable to rUK.

Whit the fk is that mess?

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Whit the fk is that mess?

The problem of trying to quote using my mobile - trying to fix it now.

[Taza]

The problem of trying to quote using my mobile - trying to fix it now.

Much better.

[bunkmedal]

The real problem with sterlingisation (rather than an independent currency) is that you have no capacity to bail out the banking sector. The most powerful resource for central banks is to print more money and that's not possible under sterlingisation. So the only way to guarantee Scottish banks would be to accumulate vast reserves (as for example Hong Kong has done) which isn't feasible when our financial sector is about 8-12 times the size of our GDP (depending on how you define it) because the reserves would have to be massive.

In a currency union this wouldn't be a problem because we'd essentially have the Bank of England as lender of last resort. Under an independent currency it would be problematic, but we'd have our own central bank. This is extremely important if we want to maintain a strong financial services sector because banks can't operate without this guarantee - what banks do is essentially take deposits and loan them out to make a profit and you can't do that if there's no credible guarantee that people will get their money back (as soon as that becomes anything less than concrete you get a run on a bank, people withdraw their deposits and the bank goes under).

Now we can make arguments about rUK bailing us out externally (though they'd have no obligation to do so it might make economic sense at the same time) but it would never actually get to that point because our financial organisations would simply up sticks and move to England long before it came to that. This was the basic conclusion in the NIESR report yesterday which does a fairly good job of explaining why an independent currency is better than sterlingisation: http://niesr.ac.uk/publications/scotland%E2%80%99s-currency-options#.U-VqMWPnJrM

[Confidemus]

No voters really are hanging onto this bone aren't they? Keep trying lads, maybe one day it'll have an impact.

Personally, I don't give too much of a f**k about it. We'll be using the £ to start off with, which is fine by me.

[AUFC90]

Why do no voters always say that we're giving up the one thing that would make us independent ? What... Control of a fucking currency

France and Spain are just regions then... Completely moronic argument. Looking at all the currency options in the white paper, each option has the benefit of having full fiscal autonomy. Most people want full fiscal autonomy but won't get it as part of the UK.

Sterlingisation would only be a short term solution anyway and, by all accounts, we wouldn't have any debt.

In short.... It's not that important.

[Confidemus]

WHATEVER happens with currency in an iScotland, we'll be fine. The sky won't collapse. The earth won't open up and swallow us all. We won't die.

BUT BUT lender of last resort. BUT BUT banking collapse.

I couldn't give a shiny shite to be honest.

[Todders]

If successive Westminster governments hadn't let the banks bring the economy to it's knees then most people wouldn't know or care what "lender of last resort" was.