Tubbs Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 So if we vote yes, and the UK refuses a CU, Scotland would then not accept any debt. Presumably this would put relations with the UK at a state of political 'war' - so how do the Yes campaign think this would impact on EU membership? NATO membership, could we lend form markets ? and if so at what kind of rate? could the UK remove access to shared infrastructure Tax, NI, etc. this would go hand in hand with a fight over trident. I think the walking away from debt is not a vote winner and could be the yes camps next Plan B nightmare. It might play well with existing yes voters. particularly the more militant, but the existing yes voters aren't enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 So if we vote yes, and the UK refuses a CU, Scotland would then not accept any debt. Presumably this would put relations with the UK at a state of political 'war' - so how do the Yes campaign think this would impact on EU membership? NATO membership, could we lend form markets ? and if so at what kind of rate? could the UK remove access to shared infrastructure Tax, NI, etc. this would go hand in hand with a fight over trident. I think the walking away from debt is not a vote winner and could be the yes camps next Plan B nightmare. It might play well with existing yes voters. particularly the more militant, but the existing yes voters aren't enough. Why should we bargain with a spiteful Westminster? It's in everyone's best interests to have a CU. To refuse would be out of pure spite. So, in that case, f**k em and their debt. Saying "walking away from the debt is not a vote winner" is disingenuous. Why not focus on a petty, spiteful Westminster who say "it's our baw and we're no letting you play"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 So if we vote yes, and the UK refuses a CU, Scotland would then not accept any debt. Presumably this would put relations with the UK at a state of political 'war' - so how do the Yes campaign think this would impact on EU membership? NATO membership, could we lend form markets ? and if so at what kind of rate? could the UK remove access to shared infrastructure Tax, NI, etc. this would go hand in hand with a fight over trident. I think the walking away from debt is not a vote winner and could be the yes camps next Plan B nightmare. It might play well with existing yes voters. particularly the more militant, but the existing yes voters aren't enough. Right..... So Scotland aren't allowed to link two things that have a more than a tenious connections...money and debt. But it is acceptable to link debt to completely separate policies such as Europe, NATO etc. Strange sense of perspective you have today tubbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubbs Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Right..... So Scotland aren't allowed to link two things that have a more than a tenious connections...money and debt. But it is acceptable to link debt to completely separate policies such as Europe, NATO etc. Strange sense of perspective you have today tubbs. Well the UK would need to vote us into the EU so a direct link there. Further if you think the EU would not have an opinion on a 'breakaway' state walking away from debt from a precedent perspective then I think you are missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 No. The Bank of England is in theory independent and its monetary policy unit sets interest rates. If we were in a currency union with the stronger economy, we would enjoy the same benefits as Germany do with the Euro in that our exports would be more affordable than with a separate currency free to float upwards. That's precisely why I've been thinking that joining the Euro in the future might be very beneficial for us. We have more exports per head than almost every European nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 So if we vote yes, and the UK refuses a CU, Scotland would then not accept any debt. Presumably this would put relations with the UK at a state of political 'war' - so how do the Yes campaign think this would impact on EU membership? NATO membership, could we lend form markets ? and if so at what kind of rate? could the UK remove access to shared infrastructure Tax, NI, etc. this would go hand in hand with a fight over trident. I think the walking away from debt is not a vote winner and could be the yes camps next Plan B nightmare. It might play well with existing yes voters. particularly the more militant, but the existing yes voters aren't enough. The political war would not start with the UK refusing a CU then? It would be all Scotland's fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubbs Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Why should we bargain with a spiteful Westminster? It's in everyone's best interests to have a CU. To refuse would be out of pure spite. So, in that case, f**k em and their debt. Saying "walking away from the debt is not a vote winner" is disingenuous. Why not focus on a petty, spiteful Westminster who say "it's our baw and we're no letting you play"? Who says its in everyone's interests - everyone knows its a temporary convenience that iScotland would want ? We cant enforce our will on anyone. But even if we go with your position re spite what are the consequences of us starting life out battling with the UK and with a questionable relationship with financial markets ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Well the UK would need to vote us into the EU so a direct link there. Further if you think the EU would not have an opinion on a 'breakaway' state walking away from debt from a precedent perspective then I think you are missing something. Why would the EU care ? This is an internal matter between the UK and Scotland. If the UK want to be spiteful and not let us have a share of the BOE(holds 28% of UK debt) then they can keep all the liabilities too. An instant saving of 5 billion a year or 10 Commonwealth games. The EU wouldn't give a shite. The UK has already agreed to pay the lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubbs Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 The political war would not start with the UK refusing a CU then? It would be all Scotland's fault? Not really interested in 'fault' I am more concerned with the political and financial consequences. The yes camp is openly discussing walking away from the debt - I am aksing what the consequences of that will/may be. We cant force another country to enter into agreements with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Who says its in everyone's interests - everyone knows its a temporary convenience that iScotland would want ? We cant enforce our will on anyone. But even if we go with your position re spite what are the consequences of us starting life out battling with the UK and with a questionable relationship with financial markets ? That's why a deal WILL be done. London don't like jitters and there will be huge jitters if there isn't a currency union. Nice to know that you've been fooled by Alistair Darling's bluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubbs Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Why would the EU care ? This is an internal matter between the UK and Scotland. If the UK want to be spiteful and not let us have a share of the BOE(holds 28% of UK debt) then they can keep all the liabilities too. An instant saving of 5 billion a year or 10 Commonwealth games. The EU wouldn't give a shite. The UK has already agreed to pay the lot. The EU would care if it was seen to embrace a state that has gained independence and walked away from debt. Any area within the EU seeking independence could then repeat this process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Well the UK would need to vote us into the EU so a direct link there. Further if you think the EU would not have an opinion on a 'breakaway' state walking away from debt from a precedent perspective then I think you are missing something. So what your saying is that the only thing stopping Scotland achieving a CU and getting into the EU and NATO will be the UK who LOVE us SOOOO much? That will surely make the UK very popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Not really interested in 'fault' I am more concerned with the political and financial consequences. The yes camp is openly discussing walking away from the debt - I am aksing what the consequences of that will/may be. We cant force another country to enter into agreements with us. BOE = asset. It also holds 28% of the debt. Of course we shouldn't pay the debt if we're not allowed a share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 The EU would care if it was seen to embrace a state that has gained independence and walked away from debt. Any area within the EU seeking independence could then repeat this process. They really wouldn't care though. We aren't walking away from any debt. We are deciding not to take a portion of the UKs debt. Big difference. So... In the event of a yes vote... You'd be quite happy for us to take on the debt whilst being denied access to the BOE ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Not really interested in 'fault' I am more concerned with the political and financial consequences. The yes camp is openly discussing walking away from the debt - I am aksing what the consequences of that will/may be. We cant force another country to enter into agreements with us. Just as they can't force another country to take on their debt. I would love it if my neighbour paid my mortgage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubbs Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 BOE = asset. It also holds 28% of the debt. Of course we shouldn't pay the debt if we're not allowed a share. And the consequences would be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaldo Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 The EU would care if it was seen to embrace a state that has gained independence and walked away from debt. Legally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubbs Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Just as they can't force another country to take on their debt. I would love it iffy neighbour paid my mortgage. And the consequences thereafter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubbs Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Legally. Yes and countries like the UK and Spain for example could legally block membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 And the consequences thereafter? Which would be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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