The Arbroath Thread

[parsforlife]

20 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Surely that’s the whole point of regionalisation though. The cut off at Dundee is bizarre for me. You’re 45 minutes to the Queensferry Crossing from there. It’s mental and it’s why there’s this weird section of glorified amateur clubs playing in a massively diluted junior division up here now. They’ve nowhere to go. 

You can’t split it based on travel, a split based on population/number of clubs makes makes much more sense.  The pyramid is already very lowland heavy and you want to push more clubs into that system? That doesn’t make sense.  You want to make it based on travel time? The split ends up being somewhere north of Inverness.  

[DUAFC]

1 hour ago, Marten said:

The players are very much aware of these aims. Some long trips, but most are doable travel wise, with Brechin as our local game (assuming they don't go up). But let's first get there! 

Good luck with Wick Academy away on a Wednesday night in January....

Seriously,  good luck in achieving your aims & objectives. 

[ExiledLichtie]

45 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Surely that’s the whole point of regionalisation though. The cut off at Dundee is bizarre for me. You’re 45 minutes to the Queensferry Crossing from there. It’s mental and it’s why there’s this weird section of glorified amateur clubs playing in a massively diluted junior division up here now. They’ve nowhere to go. 

Where would you make the cut off?  

[Smokerson]

If a few taysode teams made the highland league plus Brechin it may turn out ok, I think Banks of Dee are highland now also?

Cant quite fathom why a Tayport for example would have to go to highland and the Perth clubs are in the lowland league areas. Seems a bit odd

[ExiledLichtie]

1 hour ago, Smokerson said:

If a few taysode teams made the highland league plus Brechin it may turn out ok, I think Banks of Dee are highland now also?

Cant quite fathom why a Tayport for example would have to go to highland and the Perth clubs are in the lowland league areas. Seems a bit odd

I believe Tayport are an exception for historic and postcode reasons.  I suspect that if they ever went up to the highland league, then league 2, then got relegated, they would drop into the Lowland league.

[Marten]

8 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Surely that’s the whole point of regionalisation though. The cut off at Dundee is bizarre for me. You’re 45 minutes to the Queensferry Crossing from there. It’s mental and it’s why there’s this weird section of glorified amateur clubs playing in a massively diluted junior division up here now. They’ve nowhere to go. 

From a travel perspective, yes we travel more in the HL. But I think the points @parsforlife makes are also valid. Also to be honest, from a travelling fan's perspective, I don't mind that we are in the Highland part of the pyramid. The Lowland League has quite few downsides, like B-teams, joke clubs like Broomhill (or whatever they're called today) & Cumbernauld Colts, lots of very boring grounds. The Highland League has quite a few lovely grounds & nice towns to go to. And with the pyramid now as it is, it will only be a matter of time before more clubs in our area join.

[TheScarf]

Most of the HL clubs are about half an hour from Aberdeen.  It's not like Lochee would be travelling to Wick and Brora every other Saturday.

What's the difference in going to Brora and Wick once each in the league as opposed to potentially getting them both away in the Scottish cup in consecutive rounds?  Isn't that the same journey? 

[afc_36_0]

The lack of signing news is making the chat on here tragic. Really hope we’ve got some better (known) players lined up than some of the trialists that played on Saturday.
Genuine question, have we ever signed someone that we know next to nothing about and they’ve turned out to be decent?

[Smokerson]

15 minutes ago, afc_36_0 said:

The lack of signing news is making the chat on here tragic. Really hope we’ve got some better (known) players lined up than some of the trialists that played on Saturday.
Genuine question, have we ever signed someone that we know next to nothing about and they’ve turned out to be decent?

Still to see Slater and Stowe plus would expect us to get another one or two in shortly. Plus two loans.

[1320Lichtie]

24 minutes ago, afc_36_0 said:

The lack of signing news is making the chat on here tragic. Really hope we’ve got some better (known) players lined up than some of the trialists that played on Saturday.
Genuine question, have we ever signed someone that we know next to nothing about and they’ve turned out to be decent?

Aye it’s panic stations… Nouble obviously but not our player as such. In the League 2 days it was a more regular thing. Mind we had some left field ones down there. Some not working out (JPW) as well as others (Simon Murray) 

 

8 minutes ago, Smokerson said:

Still to see Slater and Stowe plus would expect us to get another one or two in shortly. Plus two loans.

Have heard a couple of names and there is one I would be extremely pleased if we managed to get it done. Guy at a good age with a whole lot of experience who’s played at a good level regularly. Fits the mould of guys we should be going for

[Tattie36]

5 minutes ago, Smokerson said:

Still to see Slater and Stowe plus would expect us to get another one or two in shortly. Plus two loans.

Dick said in his interview last week that we are looking to “sign” 5 more players, sounded like that didn’t include loans.

Only 2 (at a push) on Saturday were even remotely close to the standard required. Agree they should all be given one more chance to impress, but that’s it.

Very interested to see if there are any other players, outwith those 9, lined up or if we’re putting all our eggs in one, very flimsy, basket.

[1320Lichtie]

Just now, Tattie36 said:

Dick said in his interview last week that we are looking to “sign” 5 more players, sounded like that didn’t include loans.

Only 2 (at a push) on Saturday were even remotely close to the standard required. Agree they should all be given one more chance to impress, but that’s it.

Very interested to see if there are any other players, outwith those 9, lined up or if we’re putting all our eggs in one, very flimsy, basket.

You still sign loan players though? You just sign them on loan lol 

[Tattie36]

2 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

You still sign loan players though? You just sign them on loan lol 

Yes I know but I’m pretty sure he said we were looking to sign 5 players and that loans would be used to complement those signing. Also that he didn’t want to rely on loans. Obviously we have to take everything Dick says with a mountain of salt though.

[1320Lichtie]

5 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Aye it’s panic stations… Nouble obviously but not our player as such. In the League 2 days it was a more regular thing. Mind we had some left field ones down there. Some not working out (JPW) as well as others (Simon Murray) 

 

Have heard a couple of names and there is one I would be extremely pleased if we managed to get it done. Guy at a good age with a whole lot of experience who’s played at a good level regularly. Fits the mould of guys we should be going for

Checked and he has went to a Full Time team…

 

Again shows how hard a market it can be for us, aye part time has its pros but it makes it difficult too. So many FT clubs now it feels like. There are only 17 Part Time clubs out the 42 I think. 

[Tattie36]

30 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Checked and he has went to a Full Time team…

 

Again shows how hard a market it can be for us, aye part time has its pros but it makes it difficult too. So many FT clubs now it feels like. There are only 17 Part Time clubs out the 42 I think. 

Has anyone from the club ever been clear on why we seem to be so against considering a proper hybrid or even full-time setup? We seem to lose out on a lot of potential players because of this.

If clubs like Raith, Morton, Airdrie, Accies, Ayr etc etc etc… even Cove ffs, (although I think they’re daft for doing it) can be full-time then why not us? Personally, I don’t think we should be properly full-time unless we reached the Premiership but I can’t understand why a proper hybrid setup hasn’t been seriously looked at… maybe it has?

I can’t think of a single club (in the modern era) that has stayed part-time and established themselves at this level for longer than we have.

Something’s got to give if we want to stay competitive at this level surely.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Tattie36

[ExiledLichtie]

5 minutes ago, Tattie36 said:

Has anyone from the club ever been clear on why we seem to be so against considering a proper hybrid or even full-time setup? We seem to lose out on a lot of potential players because of this.

Money?  A lot of full time clubs at our level seem to be heavily reliant on "investors" (a word which I despise) subsidising them, or carrying a whole lot of debt.  I feel like we're moving towards a point of being able to sustain full time football, but its fragile.

[clashcityrocker]

Most of the club forums on here have fans who are concerned about their club's lack of signings etc - it's a matter of waiting and having patience - would rather wait for the right fit of players than dive in head first making the wrong signings.

We already have a very good squad of players - just need a few more signings (including 2 strikers) and some loan players to complete the picture.

As mentioned before, good quality players are worth waiting for.

 

[1320Lichtie]

2 minutes ago, Tattie36 said:

Has anyone from the club ever been clear on why we seem to be so against considering a proper hybrid or even full-time setup? We seem to lose out on a lot of potential players because of this.

If clubs like Raith, Morton, Airdrie, Accies, Ayr etc etc etc… even Cove ffs, (although I think they’re daft for doing it) can be full-time then why not us? Personally, I don’t think we should be properly full-time unless we reached the Premiership but I can’t understand why a proper hybrid setup hasn’t been seriously looked at… maybe it has?

I can’t think of a single club (in the modern era) that has stayed part-time and established themselves at this level for longer than we have.

Something’s got to give if we want to stay competitive at this level surely.

Again that’s something for the future right now I would say.
 

The full FT club list is 

 

12 Premiership sides 

Dundee United

Partick Thistle 

Inverness CT

Ayr

Morton 

Queens Park

Airdrie 

Dunfermline 

Raith Rovers 

Queen of the South 

Cove 

Hamilton 

Falkirk 

 

Part Time clubs (in order) 

 

Arbroath 

Alloa

FC Edinburgh

Montrose 

Kelty 

Clyde 

Peterhead 

Stirling 

Dumbarton

Annan

East Fife 

Forfar 

Stenhousemuir

Stranraer

Bonnyrigg

Elgin

Albion Rovers 

 

So that is effectively where we can get our players from. After us there is a drop to Alloa then thereafter there is a big drop to Edinburgh and Kelty etc. Both of them definitely on a big comedown.
 

So really guys playing Part Time level there really have a big jump to make to be good Championship players. Our market really is young guys like Steele who have stood out or older guys like Slater who have found themselves at that level because of personal circumstances/ injury etc. 

 

On the other hand there is also clubs outwith the pyramid throwing lots of money about, for example absolutely would’ve taken Richard Tait who seems to be going to East Kilbride or Kallum Higginbotham who has went to Tranent. 
 

Kind of leaves us in our own strange wee market where we are looking to pick up solid guys dropping out of FT due to their age or personal circumstances, trying to get guys like Slater and Steele mentioned above or looking outwith the country for good part time players from England and willing to take a chance up here. 
 

Absolutely believe we are doing the best we can with the market we are in and I wouldn’t give Dick or Pink too hard a time about it, they took criticism last year and are doing their best not to do the same again this year it’s just a tough gig they’ve got. 
 

If the lower end teams on that FT list can do it there’s absolutely no reason why we can’t be FT or Hybrid too but still think that’s a conversation to have further down the line. 

 

[Tattie36]

26 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Again that’s something for the future right now I would say.
 

The full FT club list is 

 

12 Premiership sides 

Dundee United

Partick Thistle 

Inverness CT

Ayr

Morton 

Queens Park

Airdrie 

Dunfermline 

Raith Rovers 

Queen of the South 

Cove 

Hamilton 

Falkirk 

 

Part Time clubs (in order) 

 

Arbroath 

Alloa

FC Edinburgh

Montrose 

Kelty 

Clyde 

Peterhead 

Stirling 

Dumbarton

Annan

East Fife 

Forfar 

Stenhousemuir

Stranraer

Bonnyrigg

Elgin

Albion Rovers 

 

So that is effectively where we can get our players from. After us there is a drop to Alloa then thereafter there is a big drop to Edinburgh and Kelty etc. Both of them definitely on a big comedown.
 

So really guys playing Part Time level there really have a big jump to make to be good Championship players. Our market really is young guys like Steele who have stood out or older guys like Slater who have found themselves at that level because of personal circumstances/ injury etc. 

 

On the other hand there is also clubs outwith the pyramid throwing lots of money about, for example absolutely would’ve taken Richard Tait who seems to be going to East Kilbride or Kallum Higginbotham who has went to Tranent. 
 

Kind of leaves us in our own strange wee market where we are looking to pick up solid guys dropping out of FT due to their age or personal circumstances, trying to get guys like Slater and Steele mentioned above or looking outwith the country for good part time players from England and willing to take a chance up here. 
 

Absolutely believe we are doing the best we can with the market we are in and I wouldn’t give Dick or Pink too hard a time about it, they took criticism last year and are doing their best not to do the same again this year it’s just a tough gig they’ve got. 
 

If the lower end teams on that FT list can do it there’s absolutely no reason why we can’t be FT or Hybrid too but still think that’s a conversation to have further down the line. 

 

There are two major outliers in that lists - us and Falkirk… possibly Cove but we’ve yet to see how they react to going full-time.

Quite simply - if you want to compete, long-term in the top 2 leagues in Scotland the you really have to be full-time. Yes there will always be short-term exceptions to the rule but the bigger picture is quite simple. As part-time teams only ourselves and Dumbarton have had decent stints in the Championship in recent years and imo it’s unsustainable.

Where so we see ourselves in the medium to long term? If it’s as an established Championship, or even occasional Premiership, team then some difficult conversations need to be had.

It’s also been said that because of recent years and where we are as a club, that we have the pick of the best part-time players in Scotland. Well that’s quite obviously bullshit as all we’ve signed so far are two guys from L2, two from the Juniors and Leighton McIntosh, plenty of decent part-time players moving around in L1.

 

[1320Lichtie]

4 minutes ago, Tattie36 said:

There are two major outliers in that lists - us and Falkirk… possibly Cove but we’ve yet to see how they react to going full-time.

Quite simply - if you want to compete, long-term in the top 2 leagues in Scotland the you really have to be full-time. Yes there will always be short-term exceptions to the rule but the bigger picture is quite simple. As part-time teams only ourselves and Dumbarton have had decent stints in the Championship in recent years and imo it’s unsustainable.

Where so we see ourselves in the medium to long term? If it’s as an established Championship, or even occasional Premiership, team then some difficult conversations need to be had.

It’s also been said that because of recent years and where we are as a club, that we have the pick of the best part-time players in Scotland. Well that’s quite obviously bullshit as all we’ve signed so far are two guys from L2, two from the Juniors and Leighton McIntosh, plenty of decent part-time players moving around in L1.

 

Like who though? I think we have signed some of the best part time players available? 
 

McIntosh been at the best level and scored the most goals of any part time striker last season? 
 

Slater up for L2 player of the year and was absolutely raved about by Forfar fans? 
 

Who would’ve definitely been better than they 2 that’s went to a PT L1 club? 
 

Steele was described as the one player EF fans wanted to keep, in a position we needed, young and had 2 full seasons of football in L1 and L2 under his belt. 
 

Stowe had plenty of interest and doing things not many players at all could do yes it’s at a lower level but it’s definitely a punt worth taking. 
 

Its easy to be negative but if you look for the positives and realise the actual market we are in then the only player I’m really disappointed in losing out on is Hetherington and he obviously had his own personal reasons for going to Alloa.